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Do you consider this to be a big butt
AskRedditNSFW
11cz179
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i consider this a weird post
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Do you think the average penis size is bigger than we're told?
AskRedditNSFW
11cwd76
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You need to take into account the small dick, I’d say it’s definitely right
I think it’s probably more like 6.2 as all of my friends including myself are around that length
No, anything else is just anecdotal evidence based on someone’s local limited sample size.
I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, the average length was found by a study that physically measured a sample group of penis' and worked out the average size The majority of guys seem to claim their penis is bigger than it actually is, or in some cases smaller, so they fit better into what's considered average. I've had conversations with women where they thought 4 inches was more like 6, and thought 6 was actually 8 and so on, because they were working on what they were told, not the actual measurement, mainly because most women couldn't give a damn what measurement it is
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Affair Sex
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11cshnu
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I think 1. You need to talk to a therapist 2. Your size is not bad. Learn to use it, size doesn't matter to alot of women 3. If you are this hung up on the size comparison, I think you'll have a very hard time leaving it in the past as long as you are still with her. I get why you might ask her these questions. But I also don't see any benefit to it. Do #1, and go from there. But personally, I would get out, I wouldn't be able to forgive someone for cheating. Love is great, but if you can't trust them... love is not enough
Bro. Have some self respect and Leave her. She not only cheated but engaged in an affair She probably only came clean bc she realized the guy was never going to commit to her This has nothing to do with your penis, or her enjoying another man’s penis more. It has everything to do with her being a shitty person who doesn’t value who you are or what you have to offer Take it from me, I took a cheater back Guess what? She cheated again People rarely change, and if they do, it doesn’t happen overnight. You needa remove this leech of negative energy from your life and move on and find better I doubt you will though Regardless of what you decide to do, I highly recommend you Go read How To Be A 3% Man By Corey Wayne bro. It’s good o’l fashioned dating & relationship advice that focuses on character and confidence building rather than shitty PUA gimmicks or manipulation. Will Change your life whether you decide to stay, or leave and find a much more beautiful amazing woman that actually deserves what you have to offer
Nothing to do with size. Seek therapy
I don't necessarily believe you are overthinking it but dwelling on and delving into all the particulars about the affair and the other man is not going to help you especially if you want to continue this relationship. Her inconsistencies are probably her attempts to spare your feelings and not add to your already justified and heightened insecurities.
People alway fall into moral arguments about cheating, but few understand what it means to live with it. More people have tacit cheating arrangements than people realise. Marriages become comfortable social arrangements, with a large helping of financial entanglement. This is the reality of what you are heading into. You either need to accept that she is going to cheat, only to come home to her ‘rock’, or you need to leave. If you stay, you will only be happy if you are also getting external validation. 95% of relationships burn out quickly as the novelty wears off. Cheaters are having their cake and eating it too. Casual intense sex, but with a comfortable long term relationship to fall back into. The fact that they are cheating makes the sex even more intense. The fact that they have a home to go to makes risk taking more acceptable, so the sex can be wilder than a normal relationship as you can just walk away at burnout point. You are unlikely to be able to ‘fix’ her and have a normal life. You can negotiate your own space though, or you can move on and start over.
Do you watch porn with your partner?
AskRedditNSFW
11cnfg1
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Do you girls prefer guys to be shaven or unshaven down there?
AskRedditNSFW
11cbccd
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See this same question 5 times a day. Always the same. 50% don’t care. 25% say yes, 25% say no.
Trimmed.
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do you think dreams can really sometimes predict things to happen in real life and why?
AskRedditNSFW
11c67zw
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I don't ascribe any greater meanings to dreams other than what I can infer what it might tell me about my subconscious
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Aside from watermarking. How can you protect photos from being stolen and used by others? Thanks to my loyal friends, I’ve found out other guys are trying to use my pics. Thank god for the Veins!
AskRedditNSFW
11c000a
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If one of your male friends asked you to send him a dick pic, would you do it? Why or why not?
AskRedditNSFW
11busr7
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Yeah, doesn’t hurt anything
Nope, I don’t do that with men
Meh. Probably. Why not.
He has. Also sent
Id have to be horny lol
Is their places where you can get a erotic massage?
AskRedditNSFW
11bulbi
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Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, China, Taiwan…
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Is it rare for black women to like white guys?
AskRedditNSFW
11br67k
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No? We're just regular people. Not a monolith
Not at all
No, I do however know a lot of white men think we are intimidating lol. Well the ones I’ve encountered and asked have said this. They are often a little intimidated when approaching black women because they think we don’t like white men. Which is ridiculous to me.
Can't speak for black women. But I know for a fact, plenty of my friends who are brown women love white dudes
In my experience, I've ran into more black women that only date white guys and have zero interest in black men. (White guy here with a couple black ex's)
Would anyone send a virgin straight male thier nudes?
AskRedditNSFW
11bbe41
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No
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A social experiment.
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11b6mf1
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I’d be more curious to know how one would get themselves into such a predicament in the first place. 🤔
r/NoahGetTheBoat
Little bit of column A, little bit of column B!
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Birthday love
AskRedditNSFW
11aym6h
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I wish I was okay I wish I never born
depression
11huy11
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0.99
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I recommend getting a psychiatrist if you don’t have one, If your plagued with panic attacks it sounds like you may need to be prescribed anti anxiety medication like Klonopin. Or try nicotine pouches or vapes as an over the counter aid. My gf says nicotine helps with her anxiety. (Not advocating smoking cigarettes at all)
You sound like you are quite young. All things pass, and nobody knows how you'll be doing in a year or so. Find things that make you happy, things you are good at, help others (feed stray animals), do art, write down your thoughts, and stay here at least for a little while. Death awaits us all, do not rush it before you've tried your best.
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i wish i could die without it hurting people
depression
11hure3
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no, i don’t have autism or adhd… just terminal depression.
depression
11hucxq
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Being narcissistic
depression
11htgth
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Feel like I’m losing a friend
depression
11hte24
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Hey, I’m so sorry. That must feel so powerless. I struggle with depression and one of the things this illness does to the ones who suffer from it, is let them feel extremely guilty. Often, one of the reasons depressed people avoid anything social is because they don’t want to burden their friends. The thing is, depression makes them feel like they are unworthy of love, so it feels very contradictory to accept an invitation from friends. I am sure your friend feels very very lonely and is just trying not to ‘burden’ you. Be honest to him, say you miss him, write him a letter, etc. And yes, surely you can go visit him. Even if it’s just half an hour or even 15 minutes. It will do him good. Hope this helps.
I'm so glad he has a friend like you. Don't feel hesitant to do what you think is right for him. With regards to him feeling like a burden to others. Make sure he understands that he is a burden that you are willing to carry because beyond all the "burdens" that he sees, you see a friend and someone you rely on and value. He may not understand that your well-being is tethered to his so you're not doing this out of pity but out of care. Try to pester him with texts that you think he'll find meaningful. I hope this helps! I simply said what I thought would help, please take this with a pinch of salt and apply as you deem fit.
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i feel worthless and i feel like i have no one to talk to
depression
11ht8i6
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my depression keeps circling back
depression
11hsynh
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Depression roulette is honestly just too much. Like you said, one day it's manageable and the next could be the worst. You are doing great holding on, I hope you find someone to tell you that "everything will be fine now."
Sorry to hear that there isn't anyone that you can be rely on, sees you and appreciates you as you are. All I can ask is keep trying, life may hold something that you find meaningful that is worth the suffering. For what it's worth, I believe you are trying your best and I'm proud of you for the same and, just knowing that, makes me think you're beautiful!
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I've been alone for a couple years
depression
11hssko
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This made me extremely sad. But it was beautifully written. Loneliness is a cruel feeling.
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Don’t know if I’m depressed
depression
11hrn6z
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from personal experiences, depression can come back in waves and it’s not always an ongoing thing. one day you could feel perfectly fine and the other you just feel so miserable and worthless. some days i wake up with a really gray feeling and feeling like just getting out of bed is a chore. if you also feel like this, you might still have depression and i hope that we can get through this together! im also very sorry to hear about your attempts in the past, but im very glad you’re still here. keep your head up!
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Am I depressed?
depression
11hrfw9
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I don’t know if this is depression
depression
11hqqet
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Wtf is therapy? Is it just some grown man/woman listening to you rant for 2 hours?
depression
11hq1uj
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Lol 2 hours? Okay money bags 💰 They give you viewpoints, coping strategies, and talk you through your trauma. Kinda stupid honestly but I can't talk shit because I never really gave it a chance.
Therapy helps guide you find the answers that will take much longer if you are at it alone. Looking at a problem within it only shows so much. They help you guide you to the answer. But the efficacy of therapists is something that is questionable from what I've heard and you must find one that's right for you.
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What personnality should I get to be popular with people?
depression
11hpv4m
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Are you in school?
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I want life to be shorter
depression
11hpo9z
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I don't know how much more I can take
depression
11hpkb9
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Trauma
depression
11hpgxd
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Wanting to be sick
depression
11hpf02
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It’s only natural to want to feel like you’re important to people. I can relate
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need to vent
depression
11hpejk
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am i *really* depressed? i don't know.
depression
11horlw
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I can relate man. I constantly think like I'm overthinking and I cant find the motivation to get anything done. The worst part is I don't think time can wash this feeling off and none of my friends seem to see what I'm going through. So yeah, I think what you're feeling is pretty true
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Self sabotage really sucks
depression
11hoq0i
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i feel so so alone
depression
11hop8k
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THERAPISTS JUST STARE AT ME
depression
11holt6
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Therapy is a hit or miss. You gotta get lucky enough to find one that clicks or find some other means of healing.
Can totally relate to this.. My therapist used to just put a sad face on and nod her head but say absolutely nothing. I don't know what I was expecting her to say but the whole thing just felt so pointless and disheartening.
I think a lot of the time they’re formulating a response, I kinda try and remind myself that to most people the things I think/feel are abnormal and seem concerning. They probably don’t want to fuck it up and say the wrong thing when you share something troubling. I get u though, it can feel really awkward like they’re judging you or something… but they’re not (I’m assuming they stare before replying, but if your therapists just stare at you… yeah strange)
I fucking hate it when they do that. I finally found one after years who doesnt just stare at me. It can deffinitely take a while, and a few tries.
Had a therapist that did that. It's a technique to get you to elaborate, because people have a natural urge to talk to fill the silence. I HATE it, because while it technically gets the patient to say more words, it doesn't get them to truly open up, it just makes them uncomfortable and distressed. I understand why people would do it in a criminal interrogation, but not in therapy. Not all therapists do it!
I have begun the process of cutting out all my friends.
depression
11hojly
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Parents sometimes are to harsh
depression
11hoiwy
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I’m sorry. some people just don’t understand anxiety at all. Fuck him if he’s not willing to at least listen imo. I’d avoid benzos but gabapentin and propranolol have helped me in the past.
Say the same thing when you put him in a home.
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Feel so much guilt and shame...
depression
11hogz5
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It says there's a comment but it also says there isn't one. What the fuck?
I don't know if this helps, but I can't really talk to people either, my inner dialogue is rather intense. I have to tell myself, "it drives me crazy, I can't even handle it, so it's logical other people would have problems with it too". I know men have this stigma, you're allowed to fall apart too. It happens to everyone, and I think we all feel ashamed when it happens. Yet, when I see someone beside me fall apart, my first thought is not one of judgement, but how can I help them. Maybe other people are the same way sometimes. Sometimes I have to vent on here, I don't know if it helps, but I am still here. Good luck.
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I know how to help preserve your teeth
depression
11hobpr
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i struggle brushing my teeth as well especially after doing time in jail. i try to brush my teeth once a day at least. i will start drinking black tea more.
I simply wash my mouth with plain water after I eat anything. Teeth are totally fine. It's food that stays stuck on your back teeth that can cause problems. Rinsing your mouth out often will stop any issues from forming.
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Sleep
depression
11ho4xe
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most certainly this.
My biggest dream
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Depression Meds Interaction
depression
11hnqj3
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Breaking down at work
depression
11hnjhu
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Struggling to sleep because of disturbing thoughts - what do I do?
depression
11hnh8o
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Stay off of your phone. Read a few pages of a book instead.
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Does alcohol help?
depression
11hmvuh
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No! Alcohol is a depressant and will send you much deeper into your hole. One drink will turn into two, then four … six. You get my drift. Please do NOT take that first drink. You will forever regret thinking that alcohol will help. Source: Me about 150 times
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Coping through birthday?
depression
11hmrxc
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I honestly fucking hate everybody
depression
11hmnml
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I am not really sad, just empty, living bores me
depression
11hmdug
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Is it normal to wake up and instantly think about death?
depression
11hlsum
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Sorry to hear this, I don’t know about normal, but I get this- usually most intense first thing in the morning then kind of fades throughout the day. I think for me it’s because the day ahead seems so long/depressing/impossible
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I think we’d all be really good therapists
depression
11hlq09
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how do i help my suicidal boyfriend?
depression
11hln0l
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Not Hungry
depression
11hljrv
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There is hope for all of you and things can get better.
depression
11hl4j6
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Sexually Harassed at 15 (F)
depression
11hl3or
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Discouraged
depression
11hkvth
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How do you friends as an adult with severe depression?
depression
11hkmnc
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feeling really down
depression
11hjpgh
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how do you get over depression?
depression
11hji67
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Do you ever get depressed that you can't provide a SO or possible kids with a good family?
depression
11hjal8
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Scared to be happy
depression
11hj6lb
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Using exercise for depression
depression
11hj50q
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Can’t cope with being this lonely
depression
11hin92
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What do I do? TW: Suicidal ideations
depression
11hidt2
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My mom is kicking me out
depression
11hhyqa
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How much time is she giving you to move out? Like one of the other commenters said I would keep applying and show her you’re making progress. Try to get an interview or two. Temp agencies are a good idea if you need a job ASAP. Try to get her to at least let you stay until you find a job and save up enough money to get your own place.
>she thinks I'm being lazy and not trying hard enough... Same for me i am 18 and living with my grandma i think you should contact your grandparents they understand better
Thank god my parents ain't like that. They would never in a million years do something like that! Any parent who actually cares and loves their kids would never do such a thing. One of my uncles is a heroin addict who causes us trouble but we still love and care for him! that's true care!
Have you been for professional help?
Sorry to hear, I don't know how parents kick their kids out like this, are you sure it's not just an empty threat? Firstly I'd try help out around the house is you aren't already, and talk more 1 to 1 with your mum about future plans on getting better. Do you have any extended family to contact. Sounds fucked up but I'd threaten to kill myself if I was going to be kicked out and it probably wouldn't be a theat I'd do it for real as would feel helpless and end up living on the streets
Feeling so lonely :(
depression
11hhxb6
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Feel like I’m drowning
depression
11hhhln
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How do I become ok with being alone for life?
depression
11hhhd6
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I’m trying to accept the same. Sucks and hurts to know that I will probably never have that :(
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i have a few tips to not be depressed!!
depression
11hh3hw
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Feel so alone
depression
11hh0sk
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Hey, I’m feeling pretty similar. Feel like I lost a lot, and hate that I can’t just go back in time and stay there when things were good.
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I hate hearing about relationships or people in them
depression
11hfqh0
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Hey i dont know if a rant is gonna help at all but it kinda reminded me of what you’re going through. And I kinda just want someone to atleast kinda relate with even if it’s the smallest thing to relate with. I just hate this feeling of being alone, I can’t even imagine how it feels to be genuinely loved anymore by someone else. The relationships I’ve gotten into recently always ended with them breaking up with me because I’m such a fucking loser when they really get to know me, it’s not that I’m too clingy but I just want them to hold me or just run their fingers through my hair, I want someone to atleast tell me I’m doing my best, I want someone who will hold my hand without letting go when their friends are around, I want someone I can hug without needing to do it in secrecy because the person I love is embarrassed to hug me with others around so they don’t go out and “spread rumors”. Is it so hard to find someone that’ll just look into my eyes without having to say anything interesting? Because I know I’m not interesting at all but I have so much love to give and no one to give it to. All my friends found someone their not grateful for and the others just go to concerts part of the scene here and fuck anyone they meet and it makes me jealous that some just don’t care about feeling a genuine connection because I want one so bad for all the times I’ve never been shown love in my childhood. I fantasize about having children to take care of and movie nights with the people I love and it’s been something I’ve been starting to dream about. I’ve been hoping I die in my sleep to be in a dream like that forever but I wake up and just live the same days over and over and seeing all the happy couples in the hallways. I know I’m only a senior in Highschool and there’s more people in college but I’m seriously staring to doubt anything will change and I’ll be so far gone that I’ll never actually find love anymore. Sorry for the rant seriously, but this is the first time I’ve ever expressed how I feel at all in my entire life.
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I am permanently sad
depression
11hfh9y
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Ypu are dealing with depression for sure. But there is a way to chamge it. A few years back I thought I would drive myself to madness without anyone being able to help. But just a few therapeutic sessions helped me to be happy. I just stopped the therapy too early, just at the beginning and this is why I want to go back to attending. A full-blown therapy will give you a relief
I've been like this since I was 8 yrs old. Therapy and meds only mildly help
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I have been feeling so empty
depression
11hfd0b
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I'm going to commit suicide soon
depression
11hf8il
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Your anger feels very familiar. I started resenting a world too because I had to bottleup my sadness and anger for so long. Now alk it does is dlcrush and destroy anything that I find uncomfortable or annoying. I want to cling to life though. I resent my anger cause I know that I fucked myself over and that I could have had a better life way and the anger is just a way to vent. Please, can you wait and let us talk? I would like to get to know your story. Maybe sharing our experiences will help us both. Killing ypurself is the worst thing you can do. It will never lwt you reach the potential happiness you could have. Please, let us talk, don't take away your life
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Disabled
depression
11hf4tc
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The most frustrating thing is not understanding
depression
11hf47l
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I want to die, but I can't kill myself.
depression
11hey4e
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What you went through is horrible, I am so sorry for your loss and that you are feeling like disappearing rn. I didn't lose anyone but I feel like disappearing too. Your grief is overwhelming and you said you are on the meds so you are probably attending therapy. I think you shoukd just cling to that one person who wants you alive. It means they care for you and they can help you go through with this. You suffer a lot, you just want to get rid of this suffering, I understand you. Maybe we can chat on priv if you want to talk?
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Me too. I hope someday I will have the balls to follow through.
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How to ask parents for a therapist
depression
11hevoe
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Everything will be OK, you need to open up to your parents and tell them how you are feeling. It is a parents job to look after thier child, it is an honor to do so. They won't resent helping you.
Hey I’m also 18F and get what you mean, in my case my parents weren’t very understanding at first even when I was clearly too depressed to function because they didn’t understand, so I described to them how I felt until they got the message, that way I didn’t outright have to say ‘can you pay for therapy?’ And they were the ones to suggest it. Tell your parents you’ve been feeling worse lately and really struggling, describe how you feel as far as you feel comfortable doing so, it’s likely they’ll pick up on what’s needed if they’ve been willing to send you to therapy in the past. I know how you feel, I hope things get better soon
You deserve to live a good life and I'm sure your parents believe that too. If they found out you've been secretly suffering all this while, that'll break their heart more than anything. It is best for you and your parents that you seek help. Things might not work out as planned but trust me if you keep going you'll learn to be better.
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Why is it just move on
depression
11heh3x
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false
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true
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I’m not sad
depression
11hee1d
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Hi, I totally understand what you are going through. Depression can manifest itself in many different ways, and it's not always about feeling sad. It sounds like you feel extremely numb and disconnected from the world around you, which can be incredibly overwhelming.
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Sabotaged myself again
depression
11hdwqn
1
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false
1
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I understand its hard nowadays to find jobs so I understand if you cant. But I would suggest to try to apply for other jobs or try to do something like those delivery apps if u do get fired. You shouldn’t be somewhere that u fear everyday so i would suggest u to try to find somewhere else even if u aren’t fired! Ive been in that situation. the customers can be rude everywhere but if staff is rude aswell then the environment is entirely way too toxic to keep working in. You cannot get things done if the staff is also a bunch of assholes.
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I don’t want to commit suicide by normal means, I want to beat myself to death.
depression
11hdij4
1
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false
1
false
why are you saying this stuff? is there actually a valid reason to hate yourself so much? if you’re so unlikable, how do you have a girlfriend to begin with? please understand that everything you might hate about yourself is in your head. no one wants to see you die.
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I’m An Alcoholic And There’s No Getting Better For Me
depression
11hd84d
1
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true
false
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false
Please don’t. You have value, and there are people out there who struggle with the same and can help. In December I relapsed and nearly crashed my car. I’m not actively in meetings, but I recommend AA (it’s religious adjacent, which can be off putting, but I recommend this as an atheist myself). It’s hard and it requires you to do be open as you might never have before… but the others there will be just as open and honest. Just please, please consider it. I know I’m just a random name on the internet and that doesn’t really matter much, but I actually do care. Please take care of yourself, you can do this it just takes one step to start down a different path.
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I think it's time to give up I don't know what else to do
depression
11hct2q
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false
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Why the hell can't people understand I want to be left alone?
depression
11hcoh5
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false
1
true
Just politely tell them that u are dealing with things and that its not personal and that u would like to be alone. Keep in mind there’s alot of people that are very sympathetic to others. They see u alone and don’t want u to feel alone so they will approach u not knowing thats what u want. U have to still communicate your boundaries with people regardless of how they feel. it doesn’t make u a bad person for not wanting to talk to someone at the moment.
Yeah I get you. I hint to my friend that I want to be left alone for a while but he'll still phone me and kinda make me feel guilty for not wanting to hang out. Like he thinks I don't want to hang out with him specifically when I just simply want to be left alone for a while. I feel like people without mental health problems can't understand that concept. It's never personal. I just want to be left the fuck alone for a while and let myself recharge.
I have hope that one day you will be grateful for the people who stuck by your side during this difficult time. I relate to your post 100%. I get irritated and annoyed when people tell me about their weekend. I also get upset when I am invited and end up not going. I also repeat to myself “just leave me alone, just leave me alone”. It’s going to get better. This is temporary. Enjoy the alone time and learn and really get to know yourself. Hope this helps
I get it. Im currently going thru the same thing. Had a very big moment where things were happening & I kinda lost it. I tried reaching out to my friend & she was terrible. Then when she was ready to tell me about her problems she started reaching out. I was polite but told her to leave me alone. I currently talk to only a few ppl that were there for me & even do i limit my time as i just want to left alone too.
Honestly people are trying to be nice. You should at least appreciate that, they are offering there time to try and make you feel better.
Pointless
depression
11hcmia
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false
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Life is depressing
depression
11hcgvw
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false
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false
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help for anxiety
depression
11hc6b2
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false
1
false
Consistent exercise and plenty of sleep. Anxiety is a thought that leads to a physical response. If you are healthy and exercise, you’ll realize your body can handle these responses easily. If you ain’t dying from physical stress of your heart beating everyday from running or lifting weights then you ain’t going to die over some mental worrying issue about homework or health.
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I have noticed something with depressed people I have encountered and want to ask you if it's true or not
depression
11hacp5
1
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true
false
1
false
Sometimes the person may be faking their laughter or over compensating by laughing more and more loudly because it might have a bad reaction if we do not laugh at something that is expected to be funny
I have depression and I don't laugh very often. I also try to be straightforward because I don't like putting on a facade, so I don't fake laugh. When I laugh, it is genuine, and it might be loud sometimes. I don't scream, though.
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money worries
depression
11h9emd
1
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true
false
1
false
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(Please help!) I feel my trust and the premises my family made are betrayed and are disrespected by my parents. Nothing fucking matters anymore. I start to need opinions from you people for that dipshit instead of keeping it to myself.
depression
11h96ho
1
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true
false
1
false
By this sentence, "*That was about a year ago, but I feel it's better to elaborate what happened. And it took me a few days to make this post because I needed to refresh my mind and remember what really happened.*" I've later thought of as if there's a support of such this community for bad things I've encountered.
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i cant feel happy naturally
depression
11h66ba
1
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true
false
1
false
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I am completely losing my mind
depression
11h5uc1
1
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true
false
1
false
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It is not best. Both options just lead to misery.
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all I had to do to stay alive was find one reason to live.
depression
11h5jhr
1
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true
false
1
false
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I want to want friends, but I just don't
depression
11h52e0
1
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true
false
1
false
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shower time is a struggle
depression
11h4hfz
1
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true
false
1
false
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God, I really don't want to go back to the hospital
depression
11h4eoj
1
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true
false
1
false
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giving up on life....
depression
11h485j
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false
1
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Depressed, please help with tips.
depression
11h45t5
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false
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Can’t afford a therapist
depression
11h41ge
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My honest opinion as someone who has been through a therapist goes like this: find and try new things. Do the things you used to enjoy, but don't force yourself to do them if you aren't feeling it. Try going for walks with friends. The main thing to do, as I've discovered, is to distract yourself. I lose myself in music, I go ice skating and turn my inner stress into energy. Finding healthy coping mechanisms is going to be your best friend. Try not to punish yourself for not doing things and try again later. Hope this helps
Go through a church, they usually have an affordable hookup.
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Wish I could go through one day without the thought of suicide
depression
11h3ux0
1
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true
true
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false
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My desire for dying is completely reasonable.
depression
11h3inu
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false
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I feel Like giving up
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