How to Use1. Download patch above2. Get IPS patcher (e.g. LunarIPS)3. Use patcher to apply patch to US version of SF1 ROM (choose to show all file types to make .bin files visible in LunarIPS's case)---------------An update is here!

It's a pretty major update, so I took the opportunity to change the version numbering format as well. It mostly consists of new features along with a few balance tweaks and fixes.

v2.0 Changes

Ludicrous Speed has been added!Ludicrous Speed is a mode that greatly speeds up the cursor, turn canceling, and enemy turns. This feature is active when the text display speed is set to 4.

Turn Order Viewer has been added!The remaining order of the current turn can be viewed via the in-battle Map menu and pressing A.

Mass Revival has been added!The priest can now revive everyone all at once. If refused, he also offers to check through everyone individually per usual.

Villain Dialogue Retranslation!Dialogue involving major villains has partially been rewritten based on the original Japanese script. There's an extra patch available to undo these changes (apply it after using the main patch).

Non-combat EXP has been reworked!Healing EXP now has a level difference modifier, so healers who have fallen behind can catch up faster. Detox is also similarly affected and Status spells now grant EXP as well. Healing EXP also no longer stacks up when there are multiple targets, which allows relaxing Aura and Will's high MP costs that were in place as a countermeasure to EXP going out of control.

Battle rebalancing and restructuring!A few early game battles have been touched up, mainly with enemy mages being given better choices of spells and a slight boost in MP.

Battle 6 (Cave of Darkness):Dark Priest's spell changed from Mend 1 to Mend 2bridge-opposite Sniper displaced over to first islandGiant Bat displaced to below first islandSkeleton AI changed to reposition itselfZombie positions rearrangedisland Zombie respawn number increased from 2 to 3 to compensate

Battle 7 (Circus):Evil Puppet MP increased by 2

Battle 9 (Quarry):switched 2 enemies around so that the cutscene makes more directional senseMaster Mage's spell upgraded from Blast 2 to Blast 3Master Mage's MP increased by 3reduced the number of times some Giant Bats respawn by 1fixed 2 rock tiles in the corner not being properly flagged as heavy terrainfixed a minor graphical issue below one of the new staircaseswidened the final staircase to a width of 2

Battle 10 (outside Bustoke):fixed a hill tile in the dead end not being properly flagged as hillfixed some mountain tiles in the corner not being flagged as mountain(these are actually in the vanilla game as well)

Battle 11 (Bridge):Dark Elf unlearns Heal 1 (v2.0.1)

Other rebalancing!Some characters, spells, and items received minor tweaks.

Power Lance graphic properly changed from a spear to a lancebridge added in Alterone to facilitate entry into townnumber of chests in Alterone consolidated from an absurd 23 down to 15 (gold chests merged, empty chests removed)shoes added to Anri's extra spritefilled up Vankar's inventory with medical herbs as a countermeasure to the item-passing feature bug

---------------About

After playing a few other hacks, I tried making my own (again). It's not hardcore difficult, but I aimed to make it not boringly easy, without requiring grinding.

The intention behind this hack was to cut down on downtime (moving from enemy to enemy across heavy terrain) and increase time actually interacting with enemy units. Character and enemy stats have been rebalanced entirely and the weapon progression has been turned more into sidegrades rather than direct upgrades one after the other. Most outdoor maps had their layouts modified to get rid of stretches of nothing but forests and hills, and some indoor maps were edited as well. Essentially, there should be enough changes for it to be like a new game, just with the same story and look.

Below are lists of most changes, split up into categories

General changes

WARNING: SPOILER!

Characters and enemies have different stats (enemies are generally more durable than vanilla)Most items have been thrown out and replacedGold acquisition and shop prices are changed upSpells have different ranges and effects (some spells are new)Chests have different contents (some chests are new)"Hidden" items during battles have been marked with a chest tileBattles have different enemy formationsMost battles have different map layoutsJogurt isn't completely useless

Technical changes

WARNING: SPOILER!

Experience gains slow down slower for high-leveled characters and are much higher for low-leveled charactersExperience cap per action has been increased from 48 to 96 100Healing experience has been increased from 10 to 16 12, plus a level difference bonusCertain characters have new classesYGRT and MGCR have been changed to gain experience as if they were promoted classesStat penalty on promotion has been removedPromotion requirement has been changed from 10 to 18 (but 20 is recommended)Damage bonus for hitting a weakness has been increased from 25% to 50%(Incidentally, flying enemies have been made weak to arrows and high-defense enemies to magic)Damage variance has been removedThe high-critical attribute on weapons has been increased from 13% to 60%Poison damage has been changed from an absolute 2 to 1/8 of max HPLand Effect has been reduced from 30% to 25%Item crack chance has been increased from 25% to 100% (but most usable weapons have been changed to not have a chance of cracking)Evasion rates have been halved (unverified)Chances of enemy double attacks have been greatly reduced, except in specific casesSome items affect both ATK and DEF

Misc changes (SF1 Editor options)

WARNING: SPOILER!

Land Effect bug is fixedItems are automatically passed on to the next character if hands are fullEXP carries over on a level upSome items can be equipped in addition to a weapon and a ringEnemy level is visible on their status screenCrit chance is displayed on the status screenCostume sprites are different (and some have been added for Diane and Khris)Enemies will actually go for characters other than Max and DomingoGargoyle's attack animation has been shortenedSky Warrior's attack animation has been shortened (these two are originally abnormally long)Monk's attack animation has been shortened (to make it look less clumsy)Animations for some classes' new weapon types have been added

v20180529altered battle 20's formationaltered battle 21's formation and statsfixed evil puppet's nameraised detox's exp gain from 10 to 16 (the same as healing)changed the power blade's iconchanged the contents of a chest in chapter 4enabled checking for more than one outfit item per characteradded extra outfit combinations: Anri, Tao, and Diane can now make use of the outfit item they couldn't before

This seems absolutely amazing. Gonna check it out soon. I've never patched a rom, hopefully I can figure it out.

Only to alterone so far but its fun. It feels brutally hard right now though. Everyones defense is so low, doesnt really make up for the HP boosts IMO and stats arent really growing and the lack of incrementally better weapons is showing. Almost no one on the force can upgrade to the Power weapons in town because they can barely take hits as is.

Tao feels super strong and I LOVE Mae as a Sword using Centaur (CAV is Cavalier I'm guessing?).

Yup, CAV is cavalier. I thought there was an overabundance of knights and lance users in the game, so I changed it up a bit.

As for Tao, I was actually worried she would've initially seemed too weak, especially with the slight abundance of goblins early on, so I guess that's nice to hear.

I updated the download link with some minor fixes: some enemies in the first battle would unintentionally just stand in place with no purpose in certain cases, and a terrain data change I made recently didn't go well with battles 2 and 3 (beaten path tiles were much harder to traverse than intended). I also added to the list of changes some things I had forgotten about (attack animation changes).

Looks pretty sweet. I don't remember the option to change how often Double Attacks happen being there before. Have you learned how to modify the editor? We really do need someone who can pick up where rubixcuber left off.

I got muddle staffs for Tao and Lowe. Firstly, they have no sprites when equipped, that was confusing. Second, their "Attack" command becomes the muddle spell (which idk if its been fixed iirc, it did nothing in the original unmodded SF1) and if you "use" the muddle staff it "attacks" (dont know if it does a normal attack using their attack stat or not as when I tested it lowe did 1 dmg, but he was hitting a high def enemy. the staff cracked after that single use so I couldnt test it again, too expensive to lose). I uh went to use a healing item in this battle in Alterone and the range is MASSIVE, your original post said they were self only IIRC? So thats a bug, but it gets worse, you can ONLY HEAL ENEMIES, not allies. I healed a Goblin for 20 hps. Was funny as hell.

Now for some general feedback. Tao feels good because Blaze only costs 1 MP so she can spam it for 10 consistent dmg (15 to dwarves...for some reason?) but Blaze 2 costing 4 feels quite bad, especially since everyones stats seems to be growing SO SLOW. She has 16 MP and between spamming blazes on the dwarves (more on them later) I can barely afford to use her AoE at all right now (level 6). Now to the dwarves. They feel massively overtuned. Tao is the only person that can hurt them. Their def is way too high. Especially in this alterone battle where theyre all using Guard Axes. Theyre rocking 18 Def when only like 2 people on my team have more Atk than that, and even then its only by 2-3 points tops, and thats because at least one of those cases is because of someone using the POWER weapon. Enemies are also hitting way too hard. Everyone enemy and ally having more hp is cool, but the heroes have like no def. Lug started with like 2, even with a Guard Axe he's taking over 10 dmg a hit in this fight which makes his 33HP pointless. Enemies have about the same attack as the force, but other than Goblins they all have way more Def so they take AGES to kill even with the whole force wailing on them. It feels like Tao is often the only person who does any damage to anything.

Oh yeah one last bug. I gave Hans a Doom Arrow (i think thats what its called?) and when he uses it he has no attack animation at all. Not just a missing sprite like Tao and Lowe with the Muddle staff but no animation period.

Having the spell/attack for the staves reversed is intended, mostly so that enemies can use the spell effect as well (in fact, the spell cast is their main intended use, while having the ability to attack with them was just tacked on), but cracking shouldn't be happening. They're not set to crack and they didn't seem to after some quick testing, so I'm not sure what's going on there. As for Muddle's effect... I was under the impression it causes accuracy to drop (at least it does in SF2?), so I left the spell in, but I'm not sure either.

For the healing items, I must've seen a range set to 0-0, thought it was therefore an unused default setting, and repurposed it for something else, while it was actually used for those healing items. I actually realized this and fixed it once before, but it looks like I did it again after that. Oops.

Regarding enemy defense, the idea was to have some enemies weak to all sorts of physical attacks while being relatively less affected by magic (high HP, low defense), and some enemies the opposite (low HP, high defense). To emphasize the latter's vulnerability to magic, I even made them take extra damage from magic, but I sometimes wonder if that was overkill. Some enemies were set to an even further extreme with Guard weapons, which are meant to be countered with your own Power weapons or just magic as usual. They have low attack, so they can usually be considered a lower priority to deal with and be left for later when it's safe to take out the Power weapons (or again, magic).

On the Force's side, I tweaked the numbers so that regular frontliners can survive about 2 or barely 3 hits (and succumb to the next) from the average enemy. Characters like Mae trade some offense for defense and can survive a bit better, while Lug's meant to be a glass cannon doing the opposite, so he'll need to be a bit more careful with timing and positioning. He does fare a bit better against mages though, thanks to his high HP, similarly to the enemy goblins.

Speaking of mages, for their costs, level 1 spells were set to 1 MP so that the mages could have something akin to a regular attack to fall back on. Level 2 spell costs remained high-ish so that they can't afford to bring out their full power willy-nilly on every single turn, but that's where those 1 MP-cost spells come in.

As for stats growing slow, growths are generally around as high as the original or higher, except for defense, but super early rapid growth types were taken out (e.g. Ken gaining 7 HP in one his first few level ups, or Tao gaining 15 AGI). I guess the latter and one stat lacking can lead to the feeling that stat growth is slow, but it was also somewhat intended for each individual level up to not be massively influential to prevent weaker characters from falling even further behind. On the flip side, the pace of level ups should be slightly faster than the original.

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I updated the download link again with fixes for these:-missing weapon sprites: muddle staff, doom arrow, and one more staff(consequently, Hans should now have an attack animation with the doom arrow)-healing item use ranges: they now properly target the user rather than distant enemies!

I also updated the description of the special staves in the opening post to make it clearer that their use/attack are reversed.

Hi Siel. I have nothing but praise for this mod. Glorious. Beautiful. You've come up with creative solutions and I'll state it clearly: this is easily the best shining force game I've played. I even skipped sleep for this; didn't want to stop playing hehe.

battle 5: there are 2 tiles with relative (x,y) coordinates (north positive and east positive) (0,-2) (1,-2) from the bridge that are grass with land effect 25%

angel wing is not consumed on use; not sure if intentional

the dispel indicator on the character sheet seems to disappear a turn early; not sure if this is a problem with the base game or the mod

uncurse doesn't work: wielded an evil amulet on main character and uncursed it at the church for 20 gold still can't transfer it to another character (remedy doesn't work either, detox 1 didn't work either)

shellfish attack area indicator is kinda messed up: showed 2 spaces when attacking left or right and showed another space (-1,1) when attacking up but didn't damage the second character in (-1,1). so, the area of effect indicator for the shellfish attack and the longinus weapon when attacking up or down is wierd but the attack seems to be fine

balancing

I completely support the individuation of characters in the various ways (stat development, spells, class, etc.)

as for muddle: it's rarely effective: I've been using it sparingly and the only positive was when an enemy went into the attack screen but nothing happened. at least it's working; I haven't used it enough to say whether it's properly tuned.

sidegrade weapon system is fun: allows the player to customize characters other than predetermined stat growths as well as allowing tactical play (adapting to battle conditions)

difficulty: I would describe the difficulty in this CL mod as: the difficulty gently ramps up which is friendly to new players and does after a few fights get to a point where the fights are not boringly easy. Different players will of course prefer different challenges: if I had to say too easy or too hard for myself, I would say too easy only in certain fights (all fights with puppets, all fights with pegasus knights except elliot, all fights with gargoyles) and for the most-part your strategy of ramping up the difficulty is the best solution I can think of. So if some players are saying too hard and some are saying too easy, that's a good indicator. In other words: you nailed it and all that's left would be polishing specific things. For reference, fights that I thought were nice and challenging were shade abbey, elliot battle, second ship, ramladu.

all my characters were experience capped after promotion even with force swapping and promoting at level 20. I think this is fine. Maximum unpromoted as 20 and minimum to promote as 18 worked and the inflection point in experience is a not unwelcome interruption and it gives flavor to promotion.

in general, having spawn points not known to the player before the fight can be very disruptive if they are too close. I think you have a good handle on this and when there are spawns, you give the player a turn or two to prepare.

general comments

different level versions of the same enemies is fun; clever solution to presumably staying within the limited number of enemies set in the game

joocy experience gains and attack damage hehe

light arrow is awesome lol

awesome heavy shell animation

earnest and lug are strong especially against mages; defense bottoming out at 0 helps them (in combination with power items)

there's just something satisfying about an axe wielder cracking open shellfish and conchs

evil ring doesn't seem to do anything, maybe it's just a cash item

almost the whole game done without healing items: it's a data point, at least

I enjoyed that you put different weapons on enemies; it spices things up

possible improvements

I didn't want to write a completely biased review just saying all the awesome things you've done (there's lots) so I wracked my brain trying to think of what could be improved. I, of course, defer to your judgement since you know better what's possible in the game and with the tools but here are some possibilities for consideration:

not sure if it's possble but weapons that also affect the moves stat; I know items can effect, for example, (attack and defense) and probably (attack and agility). or armor that breaks after being attacked?

more spells for characters and enemies? there are slots on some characters and on (all, I think, enemies). when enemies only have attack and spell as their options in combination with their AI that says "make a straight line to the enemy" it's easy enough to guess how enemies behave but if they had more spells it wouldn't be so easy. of course, I don't know how the engine handles multiple spells on enemies.

increase costs and damages of level 4 spells (and enemy mana)? I pretty much never find myself thinking about what level of spell I should cast when I have learned level 4; it's either save mana by casting level 1 or cast level 4 to have more effectiveness

more spawns on easier maps? if the player goes into a map and only 6 enemies are visible then it's pretty easy to guess there will be spawns. I really enjoyed how you not only had a balanced approach to this but even made enemies walk down ramps and stuff, just adding intuitiveness to the game, in addition to redesigning the maps to reflect their battle backgrounds better.

certain force characters regenerate? (some modest amount of health? mana?) similar to how some bosses do

different tiles provide different modifications? (+2 attack, -5 health per turn etc.) (this may be a stretch)

some characters unable to enter certain tiles but strong on others?

character with high counterattack rate?

character that burns down trees?

This maybe a lot of text but you obviously are putting a lot of work into this mod and I wanted the review to be adequate. I just died in the ramladu fight so it's a good time for a break but I can't wait to finish this off. Thank you for working on this awesome mod.

Oh boy, I wasn't expecting someone to have already nearly beaten the game and such a detailed and long review. I'll try to reply to most individual points.

WARNING: SPOILER!

Bugs already mentionedYup, these are already fixed now (including the throw axe, I think). I was doing later playtests mostly avoiding consumable items (and stores) to make sure they weren't on the level of being necessary, so I didn't catch myself mixing up their range data.

Possible bugs not yet mentioned

Battle 5: Oops, a leftover from the original map. It actually took me a while to spot the errors despite being told the general area and the relative coordinates, so I guess that's how I originally left them in in the first place.

Angel Wing: I haven't touched the angel wing's settings (except price), and it still shows "lose on use" flag toggled on in the editor, so I'm not sure what this is about. It's not intentional, but maybe I could just say it's a feature that comes with the slight price increase.

Dispel icon: I haven't touched how status effects work, so it's probably a behavior of the original. I guess it decides whether it's going to run out or not in advance.

Uncurse: Was Detox involved in this? I'm starting to think I should just give up on cursed items with it around. But if you're saying the main character, then maybe it wasn't Detox in this case, but the Sword of Darkness? The story event taking away the Sword of Darkness also causes this weird uncursing interaction in the original, which I've heard some deliberately abuse.

Shellfish attack: I think I remember this range indicator display bug being mentioned in the editor thread around the time rubixcuber implemented it some years ago. Since it was only visual and still worked functionally, he didn't bother fixing it. I don't think I would be able to either, but maybe I'll try taking a look at the code he added.

Balancing

Muddle: To be honest, since even the editor doesn't make it possible to easily tweak success rates, effects, or duration of status effects, I sort of gave up on balancing them and balancing the game around them completely. I did increase their range and area in hopes of making them a bit more usable, though. (range to have use cases over plain offensive spells, and area to make up for individually low success rates).

Difficulty: Fights like Shade Abbey and Ramladu actually were my favorites during playtesting as well. I actually had fewer but bigger waves at first, but found them to be much too overwhelming or made having an army of mages nearly a necessity like that.

I wasn't exactly pleased with the blandness of gargoyles either, but those battles all ran into the problem of the enemy count limit. I'm considering having them respawn to get around that, but since that might just extend the battles too long, I also thought of just condensing the enemy groups.

For the fights with pegasus knights, I can't think of an immediate reason for their disappointment. They're battles with heavily edited maps, so the excitement for that might just be blinding me.

As for puppets, I'm guessing they're just all too frail? I was thinking of making clowns physically durable, but I ended up going with staying with the magical theme and made them strong vs magic instead.

Level cap: I realized I might've had overshot my planned leveling curve as I was getting dangerously close to the level cap near the end of the game, but only a few of my characters ever reached it during tests (mostly the aoe healers and Max). Since levels and stats can still be gained even slightly past level 20, I think it's fine.

General comments

Evil Ring/Amulet: It's supposed to increase attack by 4 and decrease defense by 2 (plus have a chance of inflicting recoil damage), which I thought I had confirmed working correctly. It seems to be properly affecting those stats for me even in the latest version.

Possible improvements

Stat specialization:Amon and Balbaroy: I was a bit clueless on what to do with these two and ended up just making them really similar to each other. Amon actually starts out the slightly stronger one ATK-wise and Balbaroy the beefier one, but that eventually switches around, barely. The idea was that the weaker one could still always rely on magical swords.

Hans vs Lyle: I personally actually preferred Hans! Lyle is supposed to trade a very slight bit of physical stats for the movement he gains, plus be somewhat attractive enough to compete with a character that's been there for the whole game up to that point, or be a viable backup for a player who kicked Hans out early and was now lacking an archer. I had considered making one of them an extreme glass cannon that had to rely on light arrows (in contrast to Diane and heavy arrows) to further differentiate them, but that didn't go through, mostly because I thought 3-range was already safe enough that there'd be no way to force 5-range use (unless I made every enemy an archer or something).

I had separately also thought of making Lyle much frailer as his cost for the extra movement, but I also wanted him to have some semblance of durability to be able to make use of his movement range offensively, but I also wanted him to have to rely on his additional movement range to make up for his frailty, but then he'd ultimately still be at the same range as Hans if he wanted to attack, so the result of this indecisiveness is this pseudo-copy of Hans that was in between those options.

Centaurs: Well, for the record, Pelle has 9 MOV, so I wouldn't exactly consider him plain, but I guess the rest of his stats and abilities are. For the two others, the hope is that their offensive (Ken) and defensive (Mae) edges makes them desirable options over their competition (and in the case of Musashi, movement).

Ranges: These additional effect areas were all implemented by rubixcuber and his editor. Unfortunately, it seems areas are hardcoded. Other areas he added that I didn't make use of are a 3x3 block around the target (like a 5-square area plus the diagonals), a ring around the target (like the 3x3 block, but without the center, so the "target" is excluded), and some straight lines longer than 2 squares (like the Longinus and shellfish).

Multiple item stats: I got the ATT&DEF items to work by taking advantage of unused and buggy code left in the original, but otherwise SF1 only has one attribute change configurable per item (well, without more heavy code editing), so that will probably not be possible for a while. Armor breaking sounds simple enough in theory (just add a break check when being attacked), but I don't know enough about assembly to implement it myself.

More spells: SF1 AI can only consider the attack command plus one more thing (one item, or one spell, or one of a few specific special attacks), so that won't be possible without massive recoding either.

Spell costs: I tweaked higher spell levels mostly so that mages could keep up with ever so gradually increasing ATT scores without having them completely outstrip those very physical attacks. I generally made higher levels less cost-efficient so that middle levels could retain a purpose, but I didn't want to do that too extremely, and offensive spells essentially having only two settings didn't bother me too much. Enemy MP was set a bit low so that stalling them out could be viable, without making it so low that they just run out normally.

Force Regen: Jogurt actually already has that property! Otherwise, it's a fixed 25% HP per turn, so I didn't really think about giving it to anyone else, except maybe Max, but he doesn't really seem to need such a big boost. As for MP regen, there's nothing allowing such a function for now (unlike SF2), but I tried to simulate the concept with Adam.

Special land effects: Those sound interesting and even other games like Fire Emblem have similar effects, but I really wouldn't know how to start adding them in. Most of my edits were made through the SF1 Editor, with some minor value editing via hex editor, so I'm not able to stray very far away from the original game mechanics.

character strong no enter tile: I considered adding an aquatic character at some point (unrelated to this project), but I gave up at drawing a sprite for them.

Counterattack: Unfortunately, SF1 doesn't have counterattacks. I had started thinking of making an SF2 hack with guaranteed counterattacks, but I ultimately preferred the additional flexibility the SF1 Editor provided for SF1.

Burn trees: I like the idea of affecting terrain and even thought about adding things like disguising an enemy as a wall that can be broken, but I couldn't think of a way to implement them in an interesting way. I did do something almost in that vein for the final battle, though.

Thank you too for trying out this mod and for your thoughts on it!

I updated the download link again with the fixes for battle 5's terrain.

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Runesamurai wrote:Looks pretty sweet. I don't remember the option to change how often Double Attacks happen being there before. Have you learned how to modify the editor? We really do need someone who can pick up where rubixcuber left off.

Edit: Sorry, I accidentally let this post slide by.

The options to change Double Attack frequency are in the Class and Mechanics tabs of the editor. Unfortunately, I've made no modifications to the editor itself, nor do I know how to.

help.html wrote:Fix Double Class SettingIf checked, a dropdown will be added to the class editor for selecting the frequency of double attacks. In order to mimic the default behavior, Max / Hanzou should be set to 'Level Bonus'

help.html wrote:Fix Double Class SettingIf checked, a dropdown will be added to the class editor for selecting the frequency of double attacks. In order to mimic the default behavior, Max / Hanzou should be set to 'Level Bonus'

Speaking of double attacks, I noticed you put a rather low 1% there and I was wondering whether you'd rather take them out entirely at this point?

I guess lowering them completely to 0 is a possibility instead of trying to retain some of the original game's unpredictability. 1% instead of the default 7% just seemed low enough to make unlucky streaks much less likely while still throwing a wrench at the player from time to time.

Edit: updated download link with a really minor fix: there was a late-game item whose icon I left as a placeholder and forgot to draw for

Speaking of double attacks, I noticed you put a rather low 1% there and I was wondering whether you'd rather take them out entirely at this point?

I guess lowering them completely to 0 is a possibility instead of trying to retain some of the original game's unpredictability. 1% instead of the default 7% just seemed low enough to make unlucky streaks much less likely while still throwing a wrench at the player from time to time.

Edit: updated download link with a really minor fix: there was a late-game item whose icon I left as a placeholder and forgot to draw for

Gotcha. Well, it may have been the fact that you took out damage variance that led me to believe you weren't too fond of randomness.

It certainly did throw a wrench at me anyway; 2 out of 3 deaths so far have been caused by them. (R.I.P. Gort, Arthur and Anri, I'll miss you guys...)

FYI, lowering the odds to 0 won't actually eliminate double attacks; that'll still leave a 1 in 101 chance of them happening, believe it or not!