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YOUR "COLLECTION SCORE"

I totally agree about experian. The CAs must like them too because most of my hard inquiries from CAs are on Exp. It's so hard to get Exp to change anything. Unfortunately, as I continue with my credit repair process, my collection score continues to rise as I fend off the calls from the CAs

I think I am falling victim to this....in the last 3-4 months more than a few "almost zombie" debts have popped up from no where!!!! I'm talking things almost 5 years old - no collection activity until now. I think I've received 3 NEW duns in the last week alone!!!! AAAAUUUGGGHHHH!!!

I wonder if collection scores are necessarily the opposite of credit scores. For example, I could have 5 items in collections for 4 years and never pay them, so that would be a poor collection score, but they are all medical and I pay everything else, and have a highish credit score.

If so, for those wanting to negotiate better terms with collection companies, I wonder if they would want to intentionally lower their collections score...

Anthony Rodriguez: I'd like to move on now to the issue of analytics and scoring and to what extent that it's being used in the debt-collection context. What information sources are you relying upon to do those analytics or scoring? And what the effect of such scoring is on consumers. And

then, finally, to what extent consumers have any ability to question whatever scoring or analytics is done by any of your companies. Joe?

>> Joseph S. Beekman: Sure. Analytics, I think, is probably a key topic in most discussions anymore in any collection agency. It's just to figure out, now that they've got their dialer or their IVR or their best phone system and I.T. infrastructure in place, what next will leverage their efficiencies. And that's typically analytics. And analytics most commonly points to data mining of some sort and then, ultimately, relying upon a score that's created. And a score could be really anything, not just a FICO score, as it once was. You know, that's really all that was available.

Instead, the new technology trend is pointed more towards a behavioral presence, really just to give a slight definition as far as scores would be concerned. And of course, Denise would be able to go into this in detail, as well. You've got scores that are created from data or public record. You've still got other geodemographic or socioeconomic databases or warehousing of information. And then, still, you've got historical behavioral aspects. And that's where scoring has moved toward... It's the complement of taking the consumer information that's available through various aspects of data collection, putting that into an algorithm or a model, and then comparing that to previous instances. And what I mean by that, in most simple terms, without reducing it to something so simple, is to suggest that if I'm a collection agency and I've got hundreds of thousands of accounts, or even millions of records or even a smaller number, but relative to my sample moving forward, I should be able to look at the linear relationship between context of data or presence of certain types of data or even previous accounts for the same consumer and how those cured, the length of time it took, the types of payment histories that came in, were they payment plans or payment in full or settlement, more apt. How is it that I can look at that data, put it into a modeling solution, and then work forward with that? So, in simple terms, when the new account comes in, I can lend from the historical information that's been available, coupled with new data that I scrub or skip for, and combine that into a score that single use is to determine the least intrusive and the quickest way to collect. And then the strategies to go about that would be use of other technologies, like IVR mailing or certain types, various methods of making contact, even to the extent that we've touched on in previous discussions about matching the type of account or the intended or expected behavior of that account, with a particular collector or a skill-set within an organization. If the account, whether it's market vertical, medical versus utility, and I've got a collector that performs one way versus another way successfully in those market verticals, then I should match them up with the most successful environment. So, certainly, analytics -- the use of data to then compile into an analytics model -- has been growing and becoming more impressive in terms of its ability to predict the capacity of payment.

>> Anthony Rodriguez: Denise, TransUnion, do they have scoring products that are used for debt-collection purposes?

(Denise Norgle, vice president and general counsel at TransUnion )

>> Denise A. Norgle: We do. And I think all the large consumer-reporting agencies do, as well. And the purpose of the scoring is really to rank-order a collector's debt portfolio to identify the consumers who are most likely to pay and/or able to pay.

So, when you're scoring a consumer's credit file, for example, you're going to look at things such as the currency of the address. Is the address we have for the consumer being currently reported as the consumer's active address? You going to look at the deceased indicator. Obviously, those consumers are not going to be at the top of your collection efforts, or they're going to be treated differently. They're going to be using the tools that Angela's company offers. And then you start looking at the credit accounts. And I think Joe alluded to some of the things that you look at.

You look at, does this consumer have a history of becoming delinquent but then, ultimately, paying his debts, or does he become delinquent and never pay them?

Those are the types of attributes that go into the scoring algorithms that enable the collectors to focus their collection efforts on the consumers who are able to pay and most likely to be willing to pay. And in terms of the benefit to the consumer, the consumer who has no income, no assets --

the things that you can deduce to some degree from the data on the credit file -- there's no point in calling those consumers, and it just makes it much more difficult for them. I think the other technology aspect of the analytics is the interplay with the real-time access. So, for example, technologies exist today where a collector may, through the phone or through the mail, invite a consumer to visit a Website, and that allows some real-time interactive communication with the consumer, where the consumer logs onto the Website, authenticates himself.

The collector's technology is able to look at the information they have on the debt, as well as information from the credit file or whatever other data sources they're using, go through their analytics, and offer the consumer an appropriate payment plan or appropriate settlement offer. And these things are able to happen real time while the consumer is online and has expressed an interest in being willing settle his account. So I think that's another example where analytics benefit the consumer, because they help the collector and the consumer arrive at an appropriate settlement of a debt.

>> Anthony Rodriguez: And what about consumer rights with respect to such products and services? If they, for some reason, find out what their score is or how they're being pursued because of information that TransUnion has provided, what rights are associated with those products, if any?

>> Conor Kennedy: I think the real concern here is safeguarding these very sensitive profiles, once they're actually completely constituted. The FTC has previously clarified the Safeguards Rule under the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and came out with 50 or so rudimentary privacy measures that firms should undertake to safeguard data of this kind of personal nature. And I think what the FTC should do is clarify that these measures are absolutely obligatory for all skip-tracing firms, especially in the context of the kind of behavioral and analytic products that they're now coming out with.

Anthony Rodriguez: Denise?

>> Denise A. Norgle: Certainly, we also support safeguarding of consumer information. I think, to your question, Tony, about consumer access to the information, certainly, under Fair Credit Reporting Act, consumers have access to the underlying data that goes into the analytics. If there's something inaccurate, they have a dispute-and-correction right under FCRA.

In terms of access to the analytics themselves, there's no single collection score out there. We certainly don't offer a single collection score. I think sometimes the term "score" is a bit of a misnomer, because it often is more attribute-driven. So when you're looking at a portfolio, you're ranking consumers based on a number of attributes, as opposed to a specific numeric indicator.

So there is no collection score that's made available -- at least, by my company -- to consumers.

We, of course, make credit scores available to them. But in terms of a specific collection score, that's not something that's available at this point.

Kudos to ICAN for posting this, and keeping it in front of us. This is SO important a subject for people to understand, and so few of us do understand it. This thread informs us about one of the many " Unintended Consequences " of credit repair.

Kudos to ICAN for posting this, and keeping it in front of us. This is SO important a subject for people to understand, and so few of us do understand it. This thread informs us about one of the many " Unintended Consequences " of credit repair.

The better our scores get, the more we become a target.

Yup...if you have CAs out there who might come after you, and you don't have any need for good credit at present, it's actually better to leave your bad credit alone, to lessen the probability the CAs will target you. In many states, by the time the 7-year reporting SOL has passed and the accounts are off your reports, the collections SOL will also have passed, and you'll be free and clear.

If you start improving your credit score too soon, the CAs will target you for sure. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Kudos to ICAN for posting this, and keeping it in front of us. This is SO important a subject for people to understand, and so few of us do understand it. This thread informs us about one of the many " Unintended Consequences " of credit repair.

The better our scores get, the more we become a target.

Yup...if you have CAs out there who might come after you, and you don't have any need for good credit at present, it's actually better to leave your bad credit alone, to lessen the probability the CAs will target you. In many states, by the time the 7-year reporting SOL has passed and the accounts are off your reports, the collections SOL will also have passed, and you'll be free and clear.

If you start improving your credit score too soon, the CAs will target you for sure. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Just my .02...YMMV...

not always - depending on what type of debt it is, and what proofs they have in hand, some states SOL's for contracts can go 15 to 20 years.

Kudos to ICAN for posting this, and keeping it in front of us. This is SO important a subject for people to understand, and so few of us do understand it. This thread informs us about one of the many " Unintended Consequences " of credit repair.

The better our scores get, the more we become a target.

Yup...if you have CAs out there who might come after you, and you don't have any need for good credit at present, it's actually better to leave your bad credit alone, to lessen the probability the CAs will target you. In many states, by the time the 7-year reporting SOL has passed and the accounts are off your reports, the collections SOL will also have passed, and you'll be free and clear.

If you start improving your credit score too soon, the CAs will target you for sure. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Just my .02...YMMV...

not always - depending on what type of debt it is, and what proofs they have in hand, some states SOL's for contracts can go 15 to 20 years.

Always check your state statutes carefully

ICANN thanks!!! I have been working on cleaning up stuff going on 3 months, I just noticed the collection agencies in my softs and two hards pulls this year today. I know anything they could have is SOL, I even stated that in the NonPP letters I just wrote to 7 CAs! Who have been watch me for years, around the same time each year they "pop" in. I got a new wrinkle for them, I wil be apply for the mortgage tomorrow just to see what happens. I have 4 new accounts and nothing yet, so the mortgage should be the final litmus test!

Sometimes folks are even benefitted by going charge off on accounts that were kept current through a major crisis. Let's say you kept a lease car through the mess and at the end of the lease the company tries to nail you for some extra money. If you have sterling credit you would knuckle under to keep it that way. If you have a bunch of charge offs from two years ago, a new one makes it look like you're still hurting.

Once I get all the stuff on my report cleared I am going to get a couple of mortgage pulls....then wait 60 days and see if anything crazy happens.

I would rather find out if anyone is out there when I am not really buying a house, than when I really am.

This is exactly what happened to my wife when we were buying (I am not on the loan) she paid off a bunch of collections had mortgage pulls and WHAM this medical bill for $4400 from 6 years ago gets inserted. I did the DV process and they had the docs. I tried to settle it for 1/2 and 2/3 and they will not budge from the full amount. We ended up closing with it unpaid, $600 under the threshold that would have required it to be paid by the lender, and we wrote an explanation letter and they let it slide.

Now we are approved for an equity loan.......but only if its paid, Im not too keen on paying a $4400 debt, that they refused to settle, that falls off in Oct due to DOLA being 7 yrs.

Once I get all the stuff on my report cleared I am going to get a couple of mortgage pulls....then wait 60 days and see if anything crazy happens.

I would rather find out if anyone is out there when I am not really buying a house, than when I really am.

This is exactly what happened to my wife when we were buying (I am not on the loan) she paid off a bunch of collections had mortgage pulls and WHAM this medical bill for $4400 from 6 years ago gets inserted. I did the DV process and they had the docs. I tried to settle it for 1/2 and 2/3 and they will not budge from the full amount. We ended up closing with it unpaid, $600 under the threshold that would have required it to be paid by the lender, and we wrote an explanation letter and they let it slide.

Now we are approved for an equity loan.......but only if its paid, Im not too keen on paying a $4400 debt, that they refused to settle, that falls off in Oct due to DOLA being 7 yrs.

Yup...always do a "test" mortgage application well before you intend to shop for a home, in order to make the CAs tip their hand, then you'll have plenty of time to blast 'em!

Once I get all the stuff on my report cleared I am going to get a couple of mortgage pulls....then wait 60 days and see if anything crazy happens.

I would rather find out if anyone is out there when I am not really buying a house, than when I really am.

This is exactly what happened to my wife when we were buying (I am not on the loan) she paid off a bunch of collections had mortgage pulls and WHAM this medical bill for $4400 from 6 years ago gets inserted. I did the DV process and they had the docs. I tried to settle it for 1/2 and 2/3 and they will not budge from the full amount. We ended up closing with it unpaid, $600 under the threshold that would have required it to be paid by the lender, and we wrote an explanation letter and they let it slide.

Now we are approved for an equity loan.......but only if its paid, Im not too keen on paying a $4400 debt, that they refused to settle, that falls off in Oct due to DOLA being 7 yrs.

it may also be passed the Statute of limitation for your state.

that said, I'd be careful pulling out equity in this housing market. - are you planning on staying in this residence till you retire?

Mr. ICAN quick Q for you.. My credit score is IMPROVING! Entering 600s! On both ends.. So, instead of pumping the brakes on that freight train, What shall I do if that CA (JDB, I forget) you helped me FOAD (late last year) pops back up, the zombie debt? It popped up in 2009 and again in 2010, and again last year - enter FOAD. Synopsis: Is past SOL, this is the Convergent/ER Solutions one we FOADed over PayPal, successfully. If they pop back up (and I saved the correspondence, , dunning, DVs, reply and green cards this time,) what do I do?

They are NOT on my CRs. But they HAVE popped up 3 times. Zombie style.

i own a business (floral wholesale) and we offer trade terms to our clients. we have this service with experian. all our accounts our monitored for certain triggers on their reports. and this includes the business and personal. we can get what they call "blended" reports on the biz and owner of the business as well. so yes this is a tool CA have been using for a long time. they dont even have to do anything they just sit and wait for you to come to them...

how many times have we heard the story i applied for a mortgage or credit card and bam..mysteriously a CRA is knocking at your door.

Mr. ICAN quick Q for you.. My credit score is IMPROVING! Entering 600s! On both ends.. So, instead of pumping the brakes on that freight train, What shall I do if that CA (JDB, I forget) you helped me FOAD (late last year) pops back up, the zombie debt? It popped up in 2009 and again in 2010, and again last year - enter FOAD. Synopsis: Is past SOL, this is the Convergent/ER Solutions one we FOADed over PayPal, successfully. If they pop back up (and I saved the correspondence, , dunning, DVs, reply and green cards this time,) what do I do?

They are NOT on my CRs. But they HAVE popped up 3 times. Zombie style.