dʒˈiːnpɪˈɛɹ tʃˈeɪndʒʌ ænd ɐlˈeɪn kˈɑːnz, kɑːnvɚsˈeɪʃənz ˌɔn mˈaɪnd, mˈæɾɚ, ænd mˌæθɪmˈæɾɪks, tɹænslˈeɪɾᵻd baɪ ˈɛm. bˈiː. də bˈɛvɔɪs, pɹˈɪnstən jˌuːnɪvˈɜːsᵻɾi pɹˈɛs, nˈaɪntiːnhˈʌndɹɪd nˈaɪnti ˈeɪt,
Jean-Pierre Changeux and Alain Connes, Conversations on Mind, Matter, and Mathematics, translated by M. B. DeBevoise, Princeton University Press, 1998,