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Is the Japanese phrase "俎板の上の鯉" - [a carp laid on a chopping
block](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/162539/are-there-
metaphoric-english-expressions-meaning-keeping-composure-at-a-fatal-m) related
to the Vietnamese phrase "như cá nằm trên thớt" - [like a fish on cutting
board](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/246575/what-is-the-english-
version-of-the-vietnamese-idiom-nh%C6%B0-c%C3%A1-n%E1%BA%B1m-tr%C3%AAn-
th%E1%BB%9Bt-li), either because Japanese got the phrase from Vietnamese,
Vietnamese got the phrase from Japanese, or the two languages got it from a
third language?
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etymology set-phrases
Is "俎板の上の鯉" related to the Vietnamese phrase "như cá nằm trên thớt"?
Chinese has 人为刀俎，我为鱼肉, which I must say matches the Vietnamese one more, and
is well documented in its origins.

The phrase (in chinese) is attested to Sima Qian of the Western Han dynasty,
who wrote in 史記・項羽本紀:

> “如今 **人** 方 **為刀俎、我為魚肉** 。”, meaning "to be taken advantage of"

Many thanks to China documenting its history so thoroughly. Its structure
doesn't match that of either the Vietnamese nor the Japanese, and because this
is classical Chinese, I'd be rather surprised that the Japanese one didn't at
least keep some of the characters (like 魚 vs 鯉) if this _were_ the origin.
Same goes for Vietnamese, which uses native vietnamese terms rather than
Chinese ones.

**Relationship between the phrases**

If you look at the meanings of the two phrases in either language, note that
the Vietnamese one is about your fate being out of your control (whether or
not you like it), and the Japanese one is about **staying calm** in the face
of an inevitable doom. They're similar in style, but different in ultimate
meaning, which seems unusual if they were loaned. 一石二鳥 was loaned to English,
and the meaning's still intact. I doubt in this sense that it's representative
of being loaned just because they're both about fish being cut on a board.

The chinese expression doesn't really match the sentence structure of either
of these at all, but it _more closely_ matches the vietnamese one in meaning
(not exactly). The Japanese one doesn't really resemble either in what it
implies, which focuses more on the reaction of the person rather than the
situation they're in.

If there was a common language, it's almost certainly chinese, but the chinese
equivalent just mentions fish, and that's it -- not a whole lot in common.
Also, the Viet and Japanese terms differ in meaning and style.

I'd therefore conclude they were developed independently by fishing-based
societies. Their meaning, style, and structure aren't too much alike, but just
resemble a common experience any fisherman has when cutting a fish.
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I don't have any clue to decide whether it's a parallel evolution or not, but
I guess it's from Chinese, considering the phrase is attested in a famous (1st
century BC) Classical Chinese literature, namely _Shiji_ , and the fact all
Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese shares the similar expressions.

> 大行不顧細謹，大禮不辭小讓。如今 **人方為刀俎，我為魚肉** ，何辭為。  
>  _The most powerful never mind small matters; the most polite never care
> about small etiquette. Now **they are knife and chopping block, we are fish
> in between** , why need we say goodbye?_  
>  （[史記・項羽本紀](http://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=gb&id=4869)）

* * *

> Chinese: 俎上之鱼，任人宰割  
>  Japanese: まな板の（上の）鯉  
>  Korean: 도마에 오른 고기  
>  Vietnamese: như cá nằm trên thớt
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