23908
> せめて親でも生きていてくれたら、 **こんなに苦労しなくても済んだ** だろう
>
> I wouldn't have so many difficulties, if only my parents were still alive.
> _[Example sentence from Japanese Postpositions: Theory and Practice ISBN-13:
> 978-3895861116]_

As I understand it, the bolded part works like this:

  * 苦労する: to be having trouble
  * 苦労しない: to not be having trouble
  * 苦労しなくて: connective form of the above
  * 苦労しなくても: も added to emphasize `not having trouble`
  * 済んだ: past form of 済む added to mean "manage", "make do" (?)

With that in mind, to me the whole thing, 苦労しなくても済んだ, now means
"managing/making do and **not** having trouble"? Considering the translation
given by the book, how is it implied that the speaker **is** having
difficulty?

Please note I do not actually understand how 済む is used here, grammar-wise.
The above is just guesswork. I would appreciate some help on that as well.

The main question is, following the chain of logic above, possibly linked in
me misunderstanding the use of も and/or 済む:

Why is the negative form 苦労しない used here (but implying the speaker actually
does 苦労) instead of the positive form?
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-04-21T13:11:07.613
23903
2021-09-08T01:27:28.543
2020-06-17T08:18:27.500
-1
9771
question
grammar
How does 〜しなくても済んだだろう work?
Rather than emphasis, the も here gives to しなくても the meaning of without.

  * _something_ しなくて : Not doing _something_
  * _something_ しなくても : Without doing _something_

And the meaning of 済んだ is also more "(would) have ended up".

So the sentence is "it would probably (だろう) have ended up (済んだ) without such
hardship (こんなに苦労しなくても)".
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-04-21T18:10:03.720
23906
2015-04-24T10:33:55.027
2015-04-24T10:33:55.027
254
254
23903
answer
> 「せめて[親]{おや}でも[生]{い}きていてくれ **たら** 、こんなに[苦労]{くろう}し **なくて** も[済]{す}んだだろう。」

First, this sentence is 100% natural, grammatical, etc.; It is perfect. As a
Japanese-speaker, I know that _**without**_ even thinking. (考え **なくて** もわかる) ←
Hint #1: "Without" ≒「なくて」

I am thinking to myself: 「もし、user9771さんも[日本語話者]{にほんごわしゃ}だっ **たら**
、この[文]{ぶん}を[理解]{りかい}するのに **苦労しなくて済む** のに・・・」← Hint #2

> 「Verb phrase + なくて/ないで + (も) + [済]{す}む」
>
> = "can manage/survive/do/get through, etc. _**without**_ (verb phrase)"

To express the "without" part, the verb phrase in Japanese _**MUST**_ be in
the negative form because you are essentially saying that you would make it if
it were _**not**_ for (something).

There is just no exception; The verb needs to be in the negative form.

> "What will happen if I use the _**affirmative**_ form by mistake?" asks my
> imaginary Japanese-learner.

That will change the meaning of the sentence _**completely**_!

Suppose you did not like eating raw fish but you were served sashimi as part
of a course dinner.

You:「ボクのサシミ、[食]{た}べてくれない？そしたら、ボク **食べなくて** 済むから。」

Guy:「[自分]{じぶん}で[食]{く}えよ。たった3-4[切]{き}れだろ？ささっと **食えば** 済むんだから。」

You: "Could you eat my sashimi for me? So that I'll get through without eating
it myself? (And it'll save me from looking impolite)"

Guy: "Eat it yourself, man! It's only a coupla tiny pieces, ain't it? Just
swallow it down quickly and dinner _**will be over**_."

As you have seen above, I hope, if you used the affirmative verb form in front
of 「済む」, the phrase would mean "(something) gets finished". "To end
completely" is one meaning of 「済む」.

> With that in mind, to me the whole thing, 苦労しなくても済んだ, now means
> "managing/making do and not having trouble"?

Exactly.

> Considering the translation given by the book, how is it implied that the
> speaker is having difficulty?

It is actually "stated clearly", and not "merely implied". 「こんなに～～ない」 means
"not this much". That would indicate there is an amount of (something) if not
a whole lot, would it not?

> Why is the negative form 苦労しない used here (but implying the speaker actually
> does 苦労) instead of the positive form?

I hope I have already answered this, but you just have no choice but to use
the negative verb form to express "to get by _**without**_ ~~ing". "Without"
has a negative meaning, does it not? It just is not a verb in English.

_**In meaning**_ , would you not agree that "Without (verb)ing" = "With not
(verb)ing" even though the latter may not be used in real life?
CC BY-SA 4.0
2015-04-22T01:11:52.220
23908
2021-09-08T01:27:28.543
2021-09-08T01:27:28.543
23903
answer