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The other day I was [musing on chat about
忘れれれば](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/511/conversation/about-), which I
imagined you would get if you started with 忘れられれば and left out ら:

>   1. 忘れ **る**
>   2. 忘れ **られる** （忘れる ＋ られる）
>   3. 忘れ **られれば** （忘れる ＋ られる ＋ れば）
>   4. 忘れ **れれば** （忘れる ＋ られる ＋ れば ー ら）
>

Of course, it sounds a little silly, but I thought it might be a possible
example of the so-called ら抜き言葉, where ら is left out of a verb form with 〜られる.

I've read about ら抜き言葉 before, but I'm afraid I've forgotten where! And I'm
having trouble finding the reference again. I do have Martin 1975, but it's
been almost 40 years since it was written, so I think it's likely to be out of
date on this point.

If I recall correctly, I read about some tendencies like "it occurs more often
with negatives" and "it occurs most often with short verbs". So I'm aware that
it's not really as simple as dropping ら from any form with 〜られる, but I'm not
quite sure what the rules are.

I guessed that a form like 忘れれれば would be uncommon. But when I asked about it
on chat, [非回答者さん helpfully
responded](http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/511?m=17190617#17190617):

> [...] no one says 忘れれれば. It is not a matter of how often it is said. That
> form does not exist in the first place.

If it doesn't exist, there must be a reason ら抜き doesn't occur. What is this
reason? Is it because the verb is too long? Or is there perhaps a rule against
using ら抜き with verbs ending in 〜れる? Or is it something else?
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2014-08-18T16:41:31.920
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question
colloquial-language morphology
ら抜き言葉: Why doesn't 忘れれれば exist?
Under the assumption that ら抜き is correct for all ichidan verbs, 忘れれれば is fully
correct, meaning "if [] can forget".

However, ら抜き doesn't seem to occur equally often for all ichidan verbs. These
are hits on kotonoha (<http://www.kotonoha.gr.jp/>). I don't have time to
filter out passive られる and other noise now, anybody please feel free to
enhance my answer.

**root られる れる %れる**  
来 284 66 18.9  
見 5245 629 10.7  
信じ 169 5 2.9  
入れ 766 12 1.5  
忘れ 103 0 0  
離れ 22 0 0

Not exactly a lot of statistical material, but enough to create some kind of
image. The distributions are likely different in spoken Japanese. Also
including other forms than just -る would probably paint a better picture.

My rough hypothesis is that ら抜き is more common for shorter verbs, and more
uncommon when it forces confusing forms including sequences like れれ. Still
忘れれれば is not wrong (unless you subscribe to prescriptive rules). If I heard it
in speech with enough context, I doubt I'd even notice. If I heard it in
isolation, I'd have to think for a second to get it. If I saw it in writing,
I'd find it a bit clumsy.
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answer
I, a native speaker, do not even know how to pronounce 「忘れれれば 」 because I have
never heard it said and therefore I have no idea where the pitch accent is
either in Standard Japanese or the couple of dialects that I am more than just
familiar with. I imagine it would sound fairly harsh and unpleasant and would
also be difficult to say.

Natural languages will generally avoid those negative effects because it
really benefits no one including the most avid ら抜き言葉-users. If they want to
omit ら's because it makes it easier and/or faster to say certain words, why
would they opt to use a hard-to-say phrase like 「忘れれれば 」?

I thought about this question this morning and have come up with something.
Whether that something is the answer, I am not 100% sure yet. It works,
however, with the dozens of examples that I tested in my head.

> It appears that when ラ行下一段活用 verbs that end with れる in their plain forms get
> to escape from ら-omission when they are made into their "potential &
> hypothetical" forms.
>
> Those verbs include: [忘]{わす}れる、[入]{い}れる、[慣]{な}れる、[触]{ふ}れる、[別]{わか}れる、etc.
> There are so many.

Native speakers, even including the ら抜き言葉-lovers, say 忘れられれば, not 忘れれれば, and
入れられれば, not 入れれれば, etc.

These are definitely "everyday" verbs and if I still do not hear a 「れれれ」 with
these verbs, it would have to mean something.
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2014-08-19T03:03:41.377
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answer