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### Use of Particle

で particle, among other uses, is used to indicate the termination of
something, wherein it acts like; "at; on, in". E.g. 大学は10月で終わる (The College
will end in October), 2nd E.g. 私のパスポートは5月できれる (My passport expires in May).

Whereas, までに is used to show the time by when one does/will do, with a nuance
of a time limit, wherein it acts like "by" E.g. 私10時までに家に帰る (I will be back by
10), 2nd E.g. 私は10時までに靴を買う (I will buy shoes by 10).

### Background

While reading about this use of で, I found only the usage of this those
sentences wherein the verbs highlighted/showcased the termination/end in
itself and not otherwise, e.g. 終わる highlighted the termination/end in itself,
or the use of きれる to highlighted the expiry that also indicates a
termination/end in itself (if used like in the above sentence).

So, I tried to create my own sentence with those verbs which do not show
termination/end in itself (e.g. of such verb 食べる does not highlight the
termination/end in itself, 作る does not highlight the termination/end in
itself.). I thought that, these verbs when used in Past Form, would indicate
the end, as when an act is performed in past it has already ended.

However, when I used で, the sentence, it felt like, _as per me,_ that they
were pointing out towards the commencement of the action rather than the
termination/end of it. E.g. 私は10時で食べた (I ate at 10), wherein it felt like that
I started the act at 10, rather than the action terminated at 10, or E.g. 2
私は10時で食べ物を作った (I cooked the food at 10), wherein it felt like that I started
making the food at 10, rather than it ended/terminated at 10.

Whereas, when I used the particle までに, these sentences sounded more of
termination than で. E.g. 私は10時までに作った (I cooked by 10), wherein it felt like I
cooked it, i.e. terminated/ended it.

### Questions

  1. Can で be used with the past tense of the verbs, which do not show termination/end in itself, to highlight the termination/end of that action i.e. it got over at XYZ time/day/month e.g. with verb such as 食べる (Past 食べた), 読む(読んだ), 飲む (飲んだ) etc?

  2. If 1 is in positive, did the above sentence/(s) sounded like showcasing the termination/end, i.e. 私は10時で作った (I cooked at 10) sounded more like termination i.e. like the cooking got over at 10?

  3. If 1 is in negative, is までに, irrespective of its nuance of limitation, used to showcase the termination/end in the verbs that do not show termination/end in itself? Like in the above sentence 私は10時までに作った, felt like that the performance got over i.e. terminated/ended.

  4. Is there another way to showcase such termination/end in those verbs that do not act like they end in itself?

### P.S.

This problem has been bothering me for a while. I went through the other
website(s) and a few books, but I was unable to find it. The best help that I
had was Google Translator. So, 教えてください.
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2020-07-02T19:40:20.277
78366
2020-07-05T14:50:05.427
2020-07-05T12:49:52.463
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question
particle-で grammar comparative-constructions
Usage of で and までに in certain verbs
> Can で be used with the past tense of the verbs, which do not show
> termination/end in itself, to highlight the termination/end of that action
> i.e. it got over at XYZ time/day/month e.g. with verb such as 食べる (Past
> 食べた), 読む(読んだ), 飲む (飲んだ) etc?

Not really, regardless of tense. Sentences like １０時で食べる or １０時で食べた basically
don't make sense. Depending on verbs, however, it could mean that you do
something **on the condition of** 10 o'clock. For example, １０時で始めた can barely
make sense and you would interpret it that you started at 10. １０時でお願いした would
be more natural and interpreted that you made a reservation for 10 or so.

> If 1 is in negative, is までに, irrespective of its nuance of limitation, used
> to showcase the termination/end in the verbs that do not show
> termination/end in itself? Like in the above sentence 私は10時までに作った, felt like
> that the performance got over i.e. terminated/ended.

It depends on verbs and usage. As long as 作った and 食べた are concerned, it's
interpreted that you finished it by 10. However, １０時までに動いた is not sure if you
stopped by 10 or not.
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2020-07-05T14:50:05.427
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answer