98642
Both 第 (prefix) and 次 (suffix) both seem to have the effect of turning it into
an ordinal (eg: "two" into "second"). And sometimes they are both used, like
第二次大戦. When does one choose one over the other, or choose both? How do they
compare/contrast?
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-02-18T23:10:25.087
98639
2023-03-01T12:38:14.653
38831
question
word-choice nuances
The difference between adding 第 and 次 to numbers
There is no conflict, and 第二次 simply means _'the second time'._ 第二 means _the
second_ and 次 means _time._

Yes it's possible to say 第二大戦 to mean _'the second war',_ but most people
would interpret it as _'the second (the inferior) war, the war that is the
second in class',_ implying there is a 'greater war'.

Such is the habit of the Japanese (or Chinese, since this is Kango) language,
to say _'the second time_ 第二次' instead of _'the second_ 第二'.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-02-19T06:03:53.280
98640
2023-03-01T12:38:14.653
2023-03-01T12:38:14.653
18771
39855
98639
answer
次 is a counter/unit with specific meanings. It's used in three types of
situations:

  * Counting or numbering _phases_ , _waves_ of one big phenomenon/event. 次 tends to be used for things that happen randomly but eventually finish, whereas 回 is used for regularly scheduled events and programs. 

> 3次販売 third sale (of a popular product)  
>  2次災害 secondary disaster  
>  攻撃は4次に分けて行われる Attacks will be done in four waves.

  * (Math) Counting a _degree_ of a polynomial. 

> 3次関数 cubic function  
>  2次方程式 quadratic equation

  * Saying _primary_ , _secondary_ , _tertiary_ , and so on to describe the order of importance (3次 and larger are uncommon) 

> 2次的な目的 secondary purpose  
>  廃熱の2次利用 secondary utilization of waste heat

As for 第1/2次世界大戦, I think 次 was used because the two World Wars were
considered to be parts of a larger historical process.

On the other hand, 第 is just like "no." or "-th".

> 第3会議室 Conference Room 3  
>  第4開発部 Development Division IV  
>  交響曲第5 Symphony No. 5  
>  第3王女 Third Princess

Its primary purpose is to make an ordinal/label and avoid confusion (3会議室
would mean "three conference rooms"). 第 is common in stiff fixed phrases such
as 第2次世界大戦. But since there is usually no ambiguity when 次 is present, it's
often safe to drop 第; for example, 3次販売 and 第3次販売 are interchangeable.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-02-19T15:41:57.693
98642
2023-02-19T15:48:26.293
2023-02-19T15:48:26.293
5010
5010
98639
answer