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In a video, with the importance of honorific language in Japanese society
established as the topic, one person said to another:

> 社会に出るって、大変ですね。

Which of the following is a better translation:

  1. When you go out into society, it can be so difficult. 
  2. Going out into society can be so difficult.

can the Japanese be re-phrased as either of:

  1. 社会に出るのが大変ですね。
  2. 社会に出ると、大変ですね。
  3. 社会に出たら、大変ですね。

are either of these the same usage pattern:

  1. 日経新聞を読むって、まだ出来ません。( _I can't read the Nikkei yet._ )
  2. 日経新聞を読むって、困ります。( _When I read the Nikkei, I get frustrated._ )
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2017-05-23T18:02:26.493
47678
2017-05-25T06:10:02.067
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question
nominalization adverbial
Translation of "社会に出るって、大変です。"? Same meaning as "社会に出るのが大変です。"?
The usage of the phrase って can take a little getting used to but it's really
just a shorter version of と言って ("speaking of").

The case of "社会に出るって、大変ですね。" the speaker is bringing up the idea of going into
society as a topic of thought or conversation that introduces what he's about
to say about it (maybe they were just talking about it or he wants to bring it
up as a new topic of discussion). "Speaking of going into society, it's tough
isn't it."

But when you use のが the phrase becomes much more definitive and informational
by turning the clause into a noun. "Going into society is hard, isn't it."

The same idea is being conveyed but the first one is much more conversational
and personal while the latter is more direct and informational.

Using と and たら turns the phrase into a conditional. "If you go into society,
it is hard, isn't it." This also gives it a different feeling but has the same
information.
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2017-05-23T20:38:34.067
47681
2017-05-23T20:38:34.067
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A good way to think about approaching って in this sort of case is to assume
what comes before it is a quotation, as a full sentence if possible. Then, by
using って, you're "speaking of" it. For example:

社会に出るって、大変ですね。  
「社会に出る」って、大変ですね。  
Speaking of "Going out into society", it's tough, isn't it?

日経新聞を読むって、まだ出来ません。  
「日経新聞を読む」って、まだ出来ません。  
Speaking of "Reading the Nikkei newspaper", I still can't do it.

日経新聞を読むって、困ります。  
「日経新聞を読む」って、困ります。  
Speaking of "Reading the Nikkei newspaper", it troubles me.

Of course, I'm adding in the quotation brackets for clarification here, and
colloquially speaking there are better ways of phrasing the translation that
results from this, but this way the meaning might be clearer to see.
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2017-05-23T22:45:58.337
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answer
I think "When you go out into society, it can be so difficult" focuses "after
going out into society" and "Going out into society can be so difficult"
focuses "the moment to go out into society". Am I right?

社会に出るって、大変ですね can mean both meanings but I think it seems to focus "after
going out into society". 社会に出るのが大変ですね focuses " the moment to go out into
society".

社会に出ると、大変ですね and 社会に出たら、大変ですね focus "after going out into society"

I think 日経新聞を読むって、まだ出来ません and 日経新聞を読むって、困ります are unnatural. There may be some
unnatural words which follow って. They would be translated as 日経新聞がまだ読めません and
日経新聞を読むと、イライラする.

However I think 日経新聞を読むって、楽しい makes sense. In this case, "When I read the
Nikkei newspaper, I am fun" and "Reading the Nikkei newspaper is fun" are
almost the same meaning, aren't they?
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2017-05-24T05:53:43.280
47695
2017-05-24T07:57:39.053
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> 社会に出る **って** 、大変ですね。

The って is used in the sense of:

> って  
>  ㊁〘副助〙  
>  ❶ 軽い **詠嘆** を込めて、（引用する気持ちで）題目を取り上げる。・・・というのは。「別れるとき **って** いつもこうだ。」「おれ
> **って** 、何てばかなんだ。」  
>  （明鏡国語辞典）

The って is used to introduce a topic (as if quoting it) with a light
_exclamation/admiration_. It can be rephrased as ～というのは.

> Which of the following is a better translation:  
>  1. When you go out into society, it can be so difficult.  
>  2. Going out into society can be so difficult.

I think #2 is closer to the original Japanese. More literally, "Speaking of
going out to society/the world, it is tough, right?" I think you could
translate it as "To be a working member of society is so tough!"

> can the Japanese be re-phrased as either of:  
>  社会に出るのが大変ですね。  
>  社会に出ると、大変ですね。  
>  社会に出たら、大変ですね。

I'd rephrase it as 社会に出る **というのは** 、大変ですね。 or maybe 社会に出る **のは** 大変ですね。

> are either of these the same usage pattern:  
>  日経新聞を読むって、まだ出来ません。(I can't read the Nikkei yet.)  
>  日経新聞を読むって、困ります。(When I read the Nikkei, I get frustrated.)

These Japanese sentences don't sound very natural to me, I'm afraid.  
I think you could use this って more like this way:

> 日経新聞を読むって、難しいです。/ 大変です。(Reading the Nikkei is difficult.)  
>  日経新聞を読むって、イライラします。/ 苦痛です。/ しんどいです。(Reading the Nikkei is
> frustrating/painful.)
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2017-05-24T06:48:06.057
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2017-05-24T09:13:25.007
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answer
Literal translations:

> 社会に出るって、大変ですね。 _" Going out into society", it's (something) tough, isn't
> it?_
>
> 社会に出るのが大変ですね。 _It's tough to go out into society, isn't it?_
>
> 社会に出ると、大変ですね。 _When you go out into society, it's tough, isn't it?_
>
> 社会に出たら、大変ですね。 _Once you go out into society, it's tough, isn't it?_

Whether you can rephrase or not depends on context.

* * *

> 日経新聞を読むって、まだ出来ません。 _" Reading Nikkei", it's still impossible (to people)._
>
> 日経新聞を読むって、困ります。 _" Reading Nikkei", it has trouble._ (??)

The problem on the first sentence is that, as you can see, this construction
tells general trait of, or those which can be attributed to the content before
って. You cannot put _your_ quality in its place.

> cf. 地震予知って、まだ出来ません。 _" Earthquake prediction", it's still impossible._

If you really want to convey your idea through this construction:

> 日経新聞を読むって、まだ出来ない **ん** です。 _" Reading Nikkei", it's **what** (I) still
> can't._

For the second one, you have a misunderstanding on the meaning of 困る.

> 日経新聞を読むって、もどかしい (felt impatient)／つらい (painful)／しんどい (toilsome)です。
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2017-05-25T06:10:02.067
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