33402
According to the [Japanese
wikipedia](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E4.B8.80.E8.88.AC.E7.9A.84.E3.81.AA.E3.82.AB.E3.83.BC.E3.83.89),
the playing cards ("trump") are named as follows (written in Japanese in
katakana):

A: Ace

2: Deuce

**3: _torei_**

**4: _keito_**

**5: _shinku_**

**6: _saisu_**

7: Seven

8: Eight

9: Nine

10: Ten

J: Jack

Q: Queen

K: King

It's quite clear that many names among those are from English. Those in bold
type here are quite etymologically obscure. Does anyone know about their
origins?
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-06T14:06:39.397
33397
2016-04-07T00:39:23.490
2020-06-17T08:18:27.500
-1
10168
question
etymology loanwords
Etymology of names of playing cards?
The numbers in bold seem to be from Spanish, French or Italian.

3: tre (Italian) -> とれい  
4: cuatro (Spanish)/quattro (Italian) -> けいと  
5: cince (Italian) -> ちーんけー ; cinq (French) -> しんく  
6: seis (Spanish) -> さいす
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-06T14:17:53.853
33398
2016-04-07T00:39:23.490
2016-04-07T00:39:23.490
5229
4216
33397
answer
That Japanese Wikipedia entry says

> "エースおよびデュースは元々それぞれ **ダイス**
> の1および2を表す言葉である。以前は3〜6はそれに倣って順にトレイ、ケイト、シンク、サイスと呼んでいた事もある"

and English Wikipedia entry about
[dice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice#Terms) says the following:

> "While the terms ace, deuce, trey, cater, cinque and sice have been made
> obsolete by one to six, they are still used by some professional gamblers to
> designate different sides of the dice. Ace is from the Latin as, meaning "a
> unit";[18] the others are 2 to 6 in old French.[19]".

So, these names were borrowed from English (ultimately from old French). Aside
from etymology, these are completely obsolete and most Japanese don't even
know them.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-06T17:10:10.980
33402
2016-04-07T00:06:14.813
2016-04-07T00:06:14.813
11830
3506
33397
answer
## Background

This was quite an interesting bit of research. These now-mostly-obsolete
Japanese terms look very Latinate, but as many commenters have noted, the
phonetics do not align as expected.

After some digging, I've figured out why -- they are not directly from any
Latinate language. The source was actually _English_ , much to my surprise.

The now-mostly-obsolete English source terms were imported into English from
Old French via the Norman invasion of 1066, which explains the weird phonetic
variances: English phonology has undergone a number of historical processes
that did not affect the continental Latinate languages.

Between the [Japanese Wikipedia article linked by the
asker](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E4.B8.80.E8.88.AC.E7.9A.84.E3.81.AA.E3.82.AB.E3.83.BC.E3.83.89),
and the limited uses of the English terms (just cards and dice), a couple
puzzling points become clear:

  1. Why do these strange terms only cover the numbers 1 to 6? 
    * These terms were specialized uses for games using dice, and a single die only goes from 1 to 6.
  2. Why have these terms stuck around even though standard Japanese or standard English has other words for these numbers? 
    * Specialty contexts (like gambling) can create the conditions for a sub-culture to have its own jargon, which tends to persist as long as people are interested in that sub-culture.
    * Once interest in that sub-culture wanes, the jargon terms themselves fade from use -- much as we see in both Japanese and English, where most of these terms have become obscure historical footnotes.

## Etymologies back to Latin

**Key:** JA = Japanese, EN = English, ME = Middle English, OF = Old French, LA
= Latin, * before a form = unattested in what I can find, † before a form =
obsolete in modern mainstream English

  * JA **エース** → EN [_ace_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ace#English) → ME [_ās_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED2396) → OF [_as_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/as#Old_French) → LA [_as_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/as#Latin), originally meaning something like _"a single penny"_
  * JA **デュース** → EN [_deuce_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deuce#English) → ME [_dewes_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED11454), [_deus_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED11454) → OF [_deus_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deus#Old_French) → LA [_duo_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duo#Latin), _"two"_
  * JA **トレイ** → EN †[ _trey_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trey#English) → ME _treye_ , [_treie_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED46901), _treis_ → OF [_treis_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/treis#Old_French) → LA [_tres_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tres#Latin), _"three"_
  * JA **ケイト** → EN †[ _cater_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cater#Etymology_3), possible dialect form * _cate_ (compare Norman French [_quate_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quate#Norman)) → ME [_cater_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=headword&rgxp=constrained&q1=cater), * _cate_ → OF _catre_ , [_quatre_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quatre#Old_French) → LA [_quattuor_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quattuor#Latin), _"four"_
  * JA **シンク** → EN †[ _cinq_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cinq#English) → ME * _cinq_ , [_cink_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED7738) → OF [_cinq_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cinq#Old_French) or [_cinc_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cinc#Old_French) → LA [_quīnque_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quinque#Latin), _"five"_
  * JA **サイス** → EN †[ _sice_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sice#English) → ME _sice_ , [_sis_](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=headword&rgxp=constrained&q1=sis) → OF _sies_ or [_sis_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sis#Old_French) → LA [_sex_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sex#Latin), _"six"_

### Sources:

  * [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/)
  * The [Middle English Dictionary](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/med/)
  * [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/)

**Note:** I have not found any source that specifically says _"these Japanese
terms are from English"_ , except for エース, which is quite well attested. Other
than エース, these terms are entirely missing from my JA dictionaries. That said,
English is the one language that has all of these terms, all with the expected
phonology to match the katakana (with the apparent exception of _cater_ ,
which should be _cate_ to match the Japanese; while there is circumstantial
evidence suggesting such a form might exist in English, I cannot find a solid
source for this).
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-06T23:16:25.263
33410
2016-04-06T23:21:50.780
2016-04-06T23:21:50.780
5229
5229
33397
answer