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Recently, I have been studying kanji seriously. I just learned the
compositions 成り立ち of kanji. There is a 成り立ち that confuses me a lot. My text
book says 池 is a kanji categorized as 形声文字 (kanji composed with 音記号（音符） and
意符. 音記号 of 池 is 也, but 也 itself is read ヤ not チ（onyomi of 池）or いけ. How come
this kanji 池 is read チ（音）. Is 音読み and reading of 音記号 are completely different
things? However, is there a possibility that my textbook (my professor's hand-
made book) is wrong.
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2021-12-14T14:53:04.707
91599
2021-12-16T00:17:44.153
2021-12-16T00:17:44.153
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question
kanji
Is 也 within the kanji 池 acting as a phonetic?
The answer is clearer if we look at how they may have been pronounced in Old
Chinese.

  * [池](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%B1%A0)
    * (Baxter–Sagart): /*Cə.lraj/
    * (Zhengzhang): /*l'al/
  * [也](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9F)
    * (Baxter–Sagart): /*lAjʔ/
    * (Zhengzhang): /*laːlʔ/

(Baxter-Sagart refers to one set of reconstructions, specifically [the one in
this
book](https://ocbaxtersagart.lsait.lsa.umich.edu/BaxterSagartOCbyMandarinMC2014-09-20.pdf).)

Now, reconstructions are necessarily based on incomplete information, and so
you can see that the two reconstructions don't agree on what the initial or
final of 池 and 也 actually are. However, both of them agree that the two
characters were certainly pronounced more similar to each other than in modern
Chinese varieties.

You can see that 池 ended up diverging from 也 in pronunciation starting from
Middle Chinese because of a difference in articulation in the initial (either
a sesquisyllable in Baxter-Sagart, or a pharyngealised initial in Zhengzhang's
reconstruction).

In summary, you can see that while 也 is not a meaningful phonetic component
from the point of view of modern Chinese dialects or Sino-Japanese readings,
they were much closer to each other in Old Chinese.

(PS: Your question also applies to 地, which is certainly more similar to 池,
but also raises the similar question of why it has a phonetic 也. The answer is
the same as above.)
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2021-12-15T00:41:41.780
91605
2021-12-15T00:46:12.100
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answer
While the history of Japanese characters being imported from Chinese is
relevant, it is probably more useful to focus on how Japanese is classified
now.

Kanji characters are usually categorized into 4 types, as follows:

  * Pictograms (象形文字) like 門
  * Ideograms (指示文字) like 二 or 三
  * Compound ideograms (会意文字) like 明
  * Phonetic-ideographic characters (形成文字) like 池  
( _There are 2 other categories but they are somewhat rare._ )

The phonetic-ideographic characters contain a component that sometimes gives a
clue to the pronunciation of the character. For example, you will find that
the component 昜 sometimes appears on the right side of a kanji. As you can see
[here](https://jitenon.com/parts/%E6%98%9C), it usually carries the
pronunciation of ヨウ. But not always. Therefore, as a learner you can't rely on
specific components always being pronounced a certain way. Kanji evolved in a
very unorthodox way, meaning that learners are better served by developing an
awareness of the components, but not relying on them to provide solid rules
about meaning or pronunciation.

If you want to check the category of any _joyo_ kanji, try this site:
<https://www.kanjidatabase.com/kanji_search.php> and select 'Look Up Kanji'
and then tick 'Kanji Classification'. Don't let this derail your learning
process - it is more relevant in academic discussions, although it can have
implications for learners.
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2021-12-15T10:26:38.603
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2021-12-15T10:26:38.603
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answer