45299
The two kanji radicals from the image are supposed to be 2 different kanji
radicals, one meaning "mouth", and the other meaning "enclosure". I'm not sure
if they are supposed to look different or not. The one above seems to have
some very small lines continuing the box, but may be it's just my imagination.

I noticed one of them is used in kanjis where a drawing goes inside it, and
the other doesn't have any drawing inside it. Is that supposed to be the
difference between them or they look barely different somehow?

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Vlarx.jpg)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Vlarx.jpg)
CC BY-SA 4.0
2017-04-06T20:17:06.703
45298
2019-10-03T11:31:59.587
2019-10-03T11:31:59.587
9878
9878
question
kanji handwriting radicals
Is there a difference in drawing between the "mouth" and "enclosure" kanji radicals?
In printed form, they are the same except for their size. Mouth is smaller
than enclosure. Enclosure _encloses_ other radicals or kanji, but mouth never
takes anything inside it.

Some common kanji enclosed by enclosure:

> 国 四 回 団 図 園 因

Notice how 「回」 has both 囗 (enclosure) and 口 (mouth).

In 楷書 (regular script), they look almost the same. They are drawn with the
same strokes, but the second stroke of 囗 (enclosure) can be a bit longer than
in 口 (mouth) and the final stroke of 囗 (enclosure) is drawn after the enclosed
part. In regular Japanese handwriting, the stroke length difference might be
less noticeable or not there at all. See this stroke order animation of 「回」 in
regular script:

[![回](https://i.stack.imgur.com/MkCMZ.gif)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/MkCMZ.gif)

In 行書 (running script, semi-cursive script), a fairly common and well-
understood calligraphy style, they look different. See this image of 「回」 in
running script:

[![回](https://i.stack.imgur.com/945l5.gif)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/945l5.gif)

In addition, there are other calligraphy styles that use historical radicals
or simplify the radicals as seen fit for a particular character. See
Earthliŋ's answer for more details about historical forms of 囗 and 口.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-06T20:52:17.933
45299
2017-04-07T09:25:36.153
2017-04-07T09:25:36.153
19206
19206
45298
answer
The two radicals 口 and 囗 are indeed different, even though they are hard to
distinguish in modern scripts/fonts. This "standardization" of unifying the
looks of unrelated elements is somewhat intentional (presumably to make the
script more homogeneous). You can see the same thing happening with 月 and 肉
(see [Is there any reason a lot of body parts use the Month/Moon
radical?](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/44763/1628)) and the radical ⺍
unifying various elements such as the top parts of 學、螢、巢、…

Back to the difference between 口 and 囗.

As you noticed, 口【くち】 is a Chinese character.

囗​ 【くにがまえ】 is not a (traditional) Chinese character, but only appears as an
element (signifying "enclosure") in characters such as 国・國、圓、図、…

The difference is visible in historical scripts (screenshots from Wiktionary
for [口](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%8F%A3) and
[囗](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%9B%97))

[![口](https://i.stack.imgur.com/TELUH.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/TELUH.png)
[![囗](https://i.stack.imgur.com/zApon.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/zApon.png)

as well as in handwriting.

The next pictures show them "in action" as part of a different character:

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/1T99k.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/1T99k.png)

The top row is a standard _Minchō_ font, the middle row a _Kyōkashotai_ font,
and the bottom row are their historical renderings taken from
<http://www.chineseetymology.org/>.

As 囗 くにがまえ has something inside them, the vertical strokes are parallel also
in handwriting, whereas the vertical strokes in 口 くち are slightly angled.

* * *

_Note._ 口 and 囗 should not be confused with _katakana_ ロ _ro_.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-06T20:57:44.323
45300
2017-04-06T21:36:41.397
2017-04-13T12:43:44.157
-1
1628
45298
answer
Unfortunately, there's a bit of confusion on this page. The distinction
between「口」and「囗」is not how they're drawn, but the functional role they play in
characters.

  * While「囗」does indeed mean _enclosure_ , the purpose of this component is not, in fact, to enclose other components in characters, but to provide a semantic hint of _enclosure_ in characters to do with surrounding/enclosing something. There are other characters which use「囗」for which「囗」doesn't actually enclose any component at all.

  * There are several other unrelated components which evolved into squares or rectangles in the modern form, which means that categorising square or rectangular looking components into「口」or「囗」in a binary manner is, to say the least, _unhelpful_. Things that contain rectangles don't necessarily either have something to do with _mouth_ or _surround_.

* * *

「口」is commonly used for two functions:

  1. The meaning _mouth_ , extended for _actions done with the mouth_
  2. As a _distinguishing mark_

(1) is common knowledge, so I'll focus on (2). There has been a long history
of creating _derived characters_ (Chinese: 分化字) by differentiation from
existing ones, as you can only represent so many concepts with pictograms. One
of the methods in creating new characters is by adding _distinguishing marks_
, and「口」is one of the more common marks used.

## Examples:

**「喪」from「桑」** (phonetic loan; both **そう** )

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jqAPD.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/jqAPD.png)

**「古」from「盾」** (Semantic extension. The meaning _old_ for「古」is a phonetic
loan;「古」originally meant _solid, sturdy_ , now represented by「固」, hence the
usage of a _shield_ 「盾」to bring out this meaning)

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/dzDW2.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/dzDW2.png)

**「商」** (Character is borrowed for the name of the [Shang
Dynasty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty). Original meaning
_measure > divide/quotient, commerce/trade_ ; original character
obsolete,「商」now takes on both the name and the meanings.)

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/hUx4r.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/hUx4r.png)

**「周」** (Name of the [Zhou
Dynasty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_dynasty). Original meaning
_arrangement of fields > perimeter_ ; original character obsolete.)

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Clr0b.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Clr0b.png)

**「曹」from「㯥」** (Name of the [State of
Cao](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_\(state\)). Original meaning _pair >
kind, group_ , as can be seen from「㯥」which is a picture of a pair of bags.
Original character「㯥」is obsolete. Note that「口」further changed to「曰」.)

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EX0Q3.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EX0Q3.png)

* * *

「囗」originally depicted _fortifications/walls surrounding a settlement_

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/PyS1R.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/PyS1R.png)

From this, there were two words that it represented:

  * One with the meaning _city walls_ > Chinese: _city_ , Japanese: _fortifications/castle_. The word is now written「城」, but the character evolved into「丁」, which is actually found in「城」: [![enter image description here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/X6OaL.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/X6OaL.png)

  * One with the meaning _surround_ , now written「圍」(Shinjitai:「囲」).

The meaning _city walls_ , apart from in「城」, features most prominently in the
characters「正」and「邑」.

  * 「正」originally depicted marching (feet「止」) towards a city「囗」, indicating the meaning _military expedition_ [now written「征」], extended to mean _govern_ [now written「政」], and further extended to mean _correct_ ). The sound similarity between「城」,「丁」, and「正」is not a coincidence, and「丁」doubles as a sound component in「正」.

  * 「邑」originally depicted a person kneeling outside a city. As a character component, it is written as「阝」exclusively on a character's right hand side, and is ubiquitous in characters to do with city/towns (都鄉邦郵郡). In fact, there are a myriad of proper nouns in Chinese containing「阝」, which were largely names of (ancient) towns.

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vjhcR.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vjhcR.png)

> Do not get「正」confused with「足」; in the latter, the rectangle originally
> depicted a person's buttocks, which later graphically became detached.
>
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/7JsJ1.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/7JsJ1.png)

The meaning _surround_ , apart from several characters listed elsewhere
already (「國」「圖」「園」), features prominently in a few characters containing「韋」,
where「囗」is located in the centre of「韋」.「圍」is already noted to be the modern
form of the word (note that it added another「囗」), but we also have「衛」(
_protect_ ) and「韓」( _fence_ , phonetically borrowed for _Korea_ ). For the
word representing _surround_ , feet were added to「囗」to emphasise this meaning,
depicting a city being patrolled.

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/9gA0i.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/9gA0i.png)

* * *

Another very common component which now looks like a square or rectangle was
originally drawn as a circle「〇」. This component commonly provides the meaning
of _circle_ and/or sound **えん/げん/がん**.

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/GFNrk.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/GFNrk.png)

Note,「員」originally meant _circle_ , now represented by「圓」(Shinjitai:「円」).

* * *

Finally, some incorrect descriptions regarding「四」and「回」. These are **not**
written using「囗」no matter how you look at it; they are always wider than they
are tall, whereas「囗」is always taller than it is wide (when it is used to
enclose other components). They also have nothing to do with _mouth_ ,
_surround_ , or _city wall_ , and neither shape came from「〇」.

「四」originally depicted _breathing out_ , and contains a picture of a nostril.
The _nose_ meaning is preserved in characters like「泗」( _snot_ ) and「呬」(
_breathe out_ / _rest_ , differentiated from「四」with the addition of a _mouth_
semantic「口」. The character representing this word is now written as「息」). The
meaning _four_ is a phonetic loan.

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/lWiZI.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/lWiZI.png)

「回」originally depicted eddying currents in water, resembling a whirlpool (now
written「洄」).

[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yjmH4.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yjmH4.png)
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-24T14:25:07.830
60353
2018-07-24T17:32:51.227
2018-07-24T17:32:51.227
26510
26510
45298
answer