14297
My book explains that あれで can be used to indicate mild surprise, and gives
some example sentences. They all make sense to me except this one:

> 今日{きょう}の食堂{しょくどう}の定食{ていしょく}、あれでよく改善{かいぜん}したって言{い}えるよね。まるで豚{ぶた}のえさだよ。

In the first sentence, the speaker seems to be pleasantly surprised at the
quality of the cafeteria meal. But in the second, he says it's like pig food.
Is the first sentence sarcastic? Is something else going on there?
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-01-26T13:25:01.413
14295
2014-01-26T14:02:18.930
2014-01-26T13:26:14.337
1797
1157
question
translation meaning
あれで for surprise - confusing example sentence
I think you may misunderstand the meaning of "よく". In this sentence, "よく"
doesn't mean "good".

"あれでよく[改善]{かいぜん}したって[言]{い}えるよね" means "Why do they say that it was improved!"
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-01-26T13:46:21.603
14296
2014-01-26T14:02:18.930
2014-01-26T14:02:18.930
4563
14295
answer
A half literal, half free translation (in the sense of "worst of both
worlds"):

> 今日の食堂の定食、 **あれで** よく改善したって言えるよね。まるで豚のえさだよ。  
>  Regarding today's lunch special, **with that** they have some nerve to say
> that they improved. It's quite simply pig food.

あれで doesn't express pleasant surprise. よく言える is, I guess, where you got lost.
It doesn't mean "being well able to say", but rather "how could you say
that?".

A sentence from ALC for comparison:

> そんなこと、よく言えるわね？  
>  How can you ask me to do that?
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-01-26T13:48:05.967
14297
2014-01-26T13:58:21.360
2014-01-26T13:58:21.360
1628
1628
14295
answer