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I've previously asked about
[あっての](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/6450/what-is-the-
difference-between-%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AE-
and-%E3%81%A8%E3%81%82%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6), but now it seems to me that I've
run into an additional usage of it (or perhaps the same usage I just can't
wrap my head around it...).

When the sentence is simply AあってのB, it seems pretty straightforward. For
example:

> あなた **あっての** 私なんです。

I think means: "I wouldn't be here without you" This sentence, however is more
confusing to me:

> 子供 **あっての** 我が家である。

Does this mean:

  * "Our family wouldn't be here without the children/if not for the children"? 

Or is it more like:

  * "Our family exists for the (benefit of the) children"?

Or even:

  * "If we never had children, we wouldn't be a family"?
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2012-08-17T21:16:35.237
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2012-08-18T05:23:33.733
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grammar
How is あっての used to define something?
I sometimes have this problem with あっての too so I looked it up ( _Reference:
日本語表現文型辞典 p25_ ). To my surprise the English explanation was contradictory but
the Japanese explanation works.

I'll start with the English definition:

> 「N１あってのN２」is an emphatic expression meaning N1 is realized because there is
> N2.

This fits

> 「子供あっての我が家である。」

which I take to mean "We would not be the family we are without our
children"(see note 3), but seems contra to the more familiar:

> 「あなたあっての私なんです。 / "I wouldn't be here without you"

However the Japanese explanation uses the expression:

> 「N１があるからN２が成立する」

which works for both examples.

**Notes**

  1. FWIW: The book also give alternative English equivalents as "comprised of" or "indispensable to".

  2. The full Japanese definition was:

「N１あってのN２」の形で、「N１があるからN２が成立する」と強調するときの表現。

  3. This translation is closest to your first meaning, which also seems quite acceptable. The others might also work in the right context?
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answer