95458
I saw this sentence in an episode of attack on titan

> もうお前が **知る** 俺らは いねえんだぞ

the subs translated it to

> The people you thought we were no longer exist

I don't understand since in this case the speaker is talking about how they
used to be why not say

> もうお前が **知った** 俺らはいねえんだぞ

would it be wrong to use 知った what are the differences
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2022-07-16T08:35:36.787
95421
2022-07-20T06:43:36.230
2022-07-20T06:43:36.230
43662
43662
question
grammar word-choice nuances anime casual
Why not use the past tense 知った in もうお前が知る俺らは いねえんだぞ
First, do you remember "knew" normally corresponds to 知っていた in Japanese? This
is because 知る is basically an instant state-change verb that means "to get to
know" or "to learn". See: [For 知る what is the difference between the simple
present (知る) and 知っている
forms?](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/36928/5010)

  * 彼はその本を知っている。  
He knows that book.

  * 彼はその本を知っていた。  
He knew that book.

  * 彼が知っている本  
the book he knows

  * 彼が知っていた本  
the book he knew

Therefore, お前が知った俺ら is wrong, and you have to say お前が知っていた俺ら at least. This
phrase is about お前's general understanding/knowledge about 俺ら, not a specific
event where お前 got to know 俺ら.

Now, you are probably wondering why お前が知る俺ら is correct then. This is an
exception. 知る somehow safely means "know(s)" in relative clauses. That is,
Aが知るB and Aが知っているB are roughly the same and both means "B which/who A knows"
or "B as A understands it/them". Aが知るB sounds relatively more literary and
stiffer.

  * 彼が知っている歴史  
彼が知る歴史  
the history he knows / the history as he understands it

Lastly:

  * もうお前が知る俺らはいねえんだぞ。
  * もうお前が知っている俺らはいねえんだぞ。
  * もうお前が知っていた俺らはいねえんだぞ。

These three sentences all make sense, but the first two sound more natural
because the problem is about お前's _current_ understanding about 俺ら. A more
literal translation is "The people you think we are no longer exist".
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-07-19T14:19:30.757
95458
2022-07-19T14:25:23.520
2022-07-19T14:25:23.520
5010
5010
95421
answer