I was studying some radicals and I found this: ⺹ (old, old-age) and this: 匕.
But why this: 老 (old + spoon) means "old man, old age, grow old"?? Do
Japaneses think a spoon can make you older in a shorter time? Should I stop
using spoons and start to use only chopsticks?

Please help me clearifying all these doubts floating in my mind xD Thanks in
advance!!
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-09-05T16:19:48.393
70570
2019-09-07T06:20:14.313
2019-09-06T15:59:01.137
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question
kanji etymology questions radicals
What's the connection between a spoon (匕) and the old age (⺹)? (Kanji: 老)
It appears that the 匕 component that we see in 老 did not start out as the same
character as 匕 "spoon", but instead as a stylization of long hair and a cane.
This is more apparent if you compare the progression of forms from ancient
Shang inscriptions through to the modern shapes: see the [匕 glyph origin at
Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%8C%95#Glyph_origin), the [老
glyph origin](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%80%81#Glyph_origin), and by
way of comparison, the [比 glyph
origin](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%AF%94#Glyph_origin), where the 匕
component again developed from a non-"spoon" origin.

When exploring the origins of Chinese characters, it's important to recognize
that the modern forms are not necessarily indicative of the original forms.
Things change over time, and there's a general trend towards simplification
and standardization.

If you're really interested in the historical development of Chinese
characters, look into getting a good character dictionary. I've heard good
things about the [大漢和辞典 ( _Dai Kan-Wa Jiten_
)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_Kan-Wa_Jiten), a serious and large
monolingual Japanese resource. For English readers looking for a starter
character etymology dictionary, I found Kenneth Henshall's [_A Guide to
Remembering Japanese
Characters_](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/0804820384) to be
pretty good. Avoid anything by Heisig, however: he provides fanciful
descriptions of each kanji that might be helpful for memorizing, but that have
nothing to do with historical development.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-09-05T17:30:27.127
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2019-09-05T17:30:27.127
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answer
The other answer is correct. What you see as「匕」is a corruption of a walking-
cane shape, not _spoon_ , and you shouldn't break down「老」into two separate
components.

「老」( _old_ ) depicts an _old, decrepit person_ with long, unkempt hair,
hunched over a walking stick.

`[商](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty)  
[甲](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script)  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/CDy3B.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/CDy3B.png)  
[前2](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・2.6  
[合集36416](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=36416&jgwfl=)``[西周](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Zhou)  
[金](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions)  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/F43PG.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/F43PG.png)  
殳季良父壺  
[集成9713](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=9713&jgwfl=)``[秦](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty)  
[簡](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_and_wooden_slips)  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/br0fO.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/br0fO.png)  
秦律雜抄32  
[睡虎地秦簡](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuihudi_Qin_bamboo_texts)``今  
[楷](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_script)  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/nhBuS.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/nhBuS.png)  
  
`

> As「老」is ultimately a depiction of a _person_ , the core shape originally
> contained「人」. For reference:
>
> `商  
> 甲  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6gOfC.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6gOfC.png)  
>
> [甲](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・2940  
>
> [合集18901](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=18901&jgwfl=)``[戰國](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period)・[楚](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_\(state\))  
> 簡・[帛](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_Silk_Manuscript)  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EqyXi.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EqyXi.png)  
> 2  
>
> [{{ko:包}}山楚簡](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8C%85%E5%B1%B1%E6%A5%9A%E7%B0%A1)``秦  
> 簡  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oCYJK.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oCYJK.png)  
> 日書乙種17  
> 睡虎地秦簡``今  
> 楷  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/A629n.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/A629n.png)  
>  
>  `
>
> **This should serve as an indication of how dramatically simple shapes can
> change.**

* * *

Chinese characters generally became _more complex_ ( **not** _more simple_ )
over time because (1) characters were often overloaded in usage and (2) shapes
that were too simple were too easily confused with something else.「匕」is one of
those components that you shouldn't take on face value, precisely because the
shape is too simple, and several shapes that originally looked like something
else have all converged into「匕」in the modern script.

As an actual _component which provides some sort of function upon character
decomposition_ ,「匕」is a merger between two originally independent components
which started to look extremely similar very early on.

* * *

**(1) Semantic _spoon_ and/or phonetic** **ひ**

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oV1SE.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oV1SE.png)  
[甲](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・355  
[合集27578](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=27578&jgwfl=)``西周  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/KusJa.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/KusJa.png)  
我方鼎  
[集成2763](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=2763&jgwfl=)``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/o659a.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/o659a.png)  
  
`

  * 「[比]{ひ}」( _close/near, compare_ ), from doubly semantic and phonetic「[匕]{ひ}」( _spoon_ ), depicting two spoons side-by-side;

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/zBmDi.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/zBmDi.png)  
[前7](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・6.4  
[合集4240](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=4240&jgwfl=)``戰國・楚  
簡・帛  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/qW62x.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/qW62x.png)  
253  
{{ko:包}}山楚簡``秦  
簡  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/hl3tY.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/hl3tY.png)  
秦律十八21  
睡虎地秦簡``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/7u431.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/7u431.png)  
  
`

  * 「旨」( _delicious_ ), from semantic「匕」( _spoon_ ) and semantic「口」( _mouth_ ) which later changed to「甘」( _sweet_ ), now looking like「曰」;

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/kKqVW.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/kKqVW.png)  
[乙](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・1054  
[合集6828](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=6828&jgwfl=)``西周  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/HvfEY.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/HvfEY.png)  
殳季良父壺  
[集成9713](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=9713&jgwfl=)``  
[篆](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_seal_script)  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/85hK9.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/85hK9.png)  
[旨部](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&file=77390&page=31)  
[說文解字](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuowen_Jiezi)``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/CRGzx.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/CRGzx.png)  
  
`

  * 「[匙]{し}」( _spoon_ ), from semantic「匕」( _spoon_ ) and phonetic「[是]{し}」.

`  
篆  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/PqQtL.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/PqQtL.png)  
[匕部](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&file=77391&page=12)  
說文解字``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/8jQbs.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/8jQbs.png)  
  
`

* * *

**(2) A shape variant of「人」( _person_ ) found on the right-hand-side of
characters**

> Note:「比」is generally not confusable, at least originally, with「从」(
> _Shinjitai_ :「従」).「从」is also a rare exception to the right-hand-side shape
> change of「人」.
>
> `商  
> 甲  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/a15sk.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/a15sk.png)  
>
> [甲](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・1124  
> [合集10920](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=10920&jgwfl=)``商  
> 金  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/J7WMd.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/J7WMd.png)  
> 宰椃角  
> [集成9105](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=9105&jgwfl=)``戰國・楚  
> 簡・帛  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/4FA90.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/4FA90.png)  
> 忠信之道5  
> 郭店楚簡``今  
> 楷  
> [![enter image description
> here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ZlY2b.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ZlY2b.png)  
>  
>  `

  * 「死」( _death_ ), from semantic「歹」( _picture of human remains_ > _bad, wicked, evil_ ) and semantic「匕・人」( _person_ );

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/eWa8e.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/eWa8e.png)  
[甲](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・1165  
[合集17057](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=17057&jgwfl=)``戰國・楚  
簡・帛  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/wOHhp.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/wOHhp.png)  
42  
{{ko:包}}山楚簡``秦  
簡  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/i1nMS.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/i1nMS.png)  
為吏之道44  
睡虎地秦簡``[西漢](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty#Western_Han)  
[隸](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_script)  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/GU8va.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/GU8va.png)  
  
[馬王堆帛書](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawangdui_Silk_Texts)``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z2BW5.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z2BW5.png)  
  
`

  * 「北」( _back (anatomy)_ , now written as「背」by adding on semantic「⺼・肉」 _meat/flesh_ ), from semantic「匕・人」and its mirrored shape, depicting _two people back-to-back_ ;

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DmiqZ.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DmiqZ.png)  
[菁](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)・2.1  
[合集6057](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=6057&jgwfl=)``戰國・楚  
簡・帛  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6KIMs.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6KIMs.png)  
153  
{{ko:包}}山楚簡``秦  
簡  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/KANwT.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/KANwT.png)  
法174  
睡虎地秦簡``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yNu0m.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yNu0m.png)  
  
`

  * 「此」( _to trample on something_ , now written as「跐」by adding on semantic「足」 _foot_ ), a compound of「止」( _picture of one foot_ > _stop_ ) and a _person_ 「匕・人」.

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/hR94d.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/hR94d.png)  
[戩](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)17.4  
[合集27499](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=27499&jgwfl=)``西周  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/idvm2.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/idvm2.png)  
亞此犧尊  
[集成5569](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=5569&jgwfl=)``秦  
簡  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oH28B.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/oH28B.png)  
日乙139  
睡虎地秦簡``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yBhZZ.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yBhZZ.png)  
  
`

* * *

To finish off, here's some other examples of how **not** to decompose
characters to produce what looks like「匕」:

  1. Animals' legs.

    * 「鹿」( _deer_ )

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Uxqsq.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Uxqsq.png)  
[甲](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)265  
[合集33368](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=33368&jgwfl=)``西周  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EWL3k.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EWL3k.png)  
命簋  
[集成4112](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=4112&jgwfl=)``秦  
簡  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/1FZsC.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/1FZsC.png)  
日甲75背  
睡虎地秦簡``  
篆  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/XPHdw.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/XPHdw.png)  
[鹿部](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&file=77391&page=71)  
說文解字``[東漢](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty#Eastern_Han)  
隸  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/AJPOa.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/AJPOa.png)  
黽池五瑞碑  
``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/LenyJ.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/LenyJ.png)  
  
`

    * 「能」( _bear_ > _power/strength_ > _ability_ )

`西周  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/KmOmF.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/KmOmF.png)  
能匋尊  
[集成5984](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=5984&jgwfl=)``[春秋](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_and_Autumn_period)  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/2kZVu.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/2kZVu.png)  
哀成叔鼎  
[集成2782](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=2782&jgwfl=)``戰國・[晉](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_\(Chinese_state\))  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vkkQP.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/vkkQP.png)  
⿰妾子壺  
[集成9734](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=9734&jgwfl=)``秦  
簡  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/TL6rq.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/TL6rq.png)  
法150  
睡虎地秦簡``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/zeOSS.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/zeOSS.png)  
  
`

  2. Body of a _snake_ 「它」, now written as「蛇」.

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6VLCR.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6VLCR.png)  
卷3・79  
戰後寧滬新``春秋  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6zDQx.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/6zDQx.png)  
子仲伯匜  
[集成10277](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=10277&jgwfl=)``戰國・楚  
簡・帛  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/k2xC7.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/k2xC7.png)  
164  
{{ko:包}}山楚簡``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/CxsLc.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/CxsLc.png)  
  
`

  3. Corruption of _feet_ 「舛」in「乘」( _Shinjitai_ :「乗」).

`商  
甲  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DcVNf.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/DcVNf.png)  
[粹](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference)1109  
[合集6491](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=6491&jgwfl=)``西周  
金  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/k3nj0.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/k3nj0.png)  
公臣簋  
[集成4186](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=4186&jgwfl=)``  
篆  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EXcAE.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/EXcAE.png)  
[桀部](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&file=77390&page=56)  
說文解字``今  
楷  
[![enter image description
here](https://i.stack.imgur.com/uBjUr.png)](https://i.stack.imgur.com/uBjUr.png)  
  
`

> 「乘」was originally a picture of a person「大」climbing on top of a tree「木」;
> feet「舛」were added on to the person later.
>
> The original meanings were to _ascend_ , _to ride an object_ , extended to
> mean _to take advantage of [a situation]_.
CC BY-SA 4.0
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answer