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水中に月を捉ふ爭でか拈得せん

What does 拈得せん mean there? Is some classical construction? I cant quite find
an explanation for it
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2019-05-22T02:15:01.753
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question
classical-japanese grammar
拈得せん in a writing by Genkaku
This sentence seems to be from
[this](http://www.shomonji.or.jp/soroku/shodoka/index.html)
[kanbun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanbun) Buddhist sutra. 拈得す seems to be
a rare word, but from its kanji (拈 =
[撚](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%92%9A) = pinch/pick/take; 得 = obtain),
I think it means something like "to pick out" or "to pick and obtain". せん is a
form of す ("to do") followed by ん for inference. This せん translates to
するだろう(か) in modern Japanese.

> 水中に月を捉ふ 爭でか拈得せん  
>  Catching the moon in the water...how can you pick it out? (i.e., no it's
> impossible)
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2019-05-22T05:15:42.717
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answer
As you said, it's from a Buddhist (zen) verse
[証道歌](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Enlightenment) which is attributed
to [玄覚](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yongjia_Xuanjue). As most of zen works
are, it's written in colloquial Middle Chinese, not using the usual vocabulary
of Classical Chinese or Japanese.

  * 拈得 "able to pick up" ← [拈](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%8B%88) (verb) "catch with fingers" + [得](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%BE%97#Pronunciation_2) (modal) "have been able to ...; successfully ..."
  * 拈得せん ← 拈得-す (makes verb) + [む/ん](https://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%82%80) (auxiliary) "will; would; might"

As `question + か + verb + む` is a formula in Classical Japanese to make a
rhetorical question, 爭【いか】でか拈得せん would be translated "how could (you) pick it
up? (no you couldn't)".

(爭 is also a Middle Chinese word otherwise shouldn't have such reading.)
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2019-05-22T06:14:39.053
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