64512
In Japanese, long vowels ā, ī, ū are written as ああ (aa), いい (ii), うう (uu).
However, ē and ō, in most cases, written as えい (ei) and おう (ou), but in other
cases as ええ (ee) and おお (oo).

For example:

  * 先生{せんせい} -> sensei
  * 姉さん{ねえさん} -> neesan

I used to believe that _ei_ and _ee_ are exactly the same, and should be
pronounced as ē (ee) regardless of spellings.

But today I saw this answer by a native speaker:
<https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/30039/30724>

> せ、ん、せ、い。 （or せ、ん、せ、え。）

They pronounced 先生 as either `せ、ん、せ、い` (se|n|se|i) or `せ、ん、せ、え` (se|n|se|e).
This confuses me.

Should ei/ee, ou/oo be treated the same?
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-12-20T01:28:24.387
64493
2018-12-20T18:42:49.337
2018-12-20T18:24:58.177
5229
30724
question
pronunciation readings long-vowels
Do native speakers pronounce long vowels えい or おう as one long vowel, or two different vowels?
I can offer a little bit of insight on this. I teach English to young Japanese
kids, and in a recent lesson, we were comparing the sounds of the names of
different English letters and grouping them according to which names had
similar sounds. For example, out of the letters A, N, Y, D, K, P, I, H, M, T,
the task was to recognize that D, P, T all ended with "ee" sound.

Of course, for Japanese people, this is actually represented with the hiragana
い ... as a result, many of my students thought that it was odd not to include
A, K, I and Y in that group, because in the Japanese way of thinking about
their sounds, they all end in い as well.

When I played the names of A, K, and H together, though, students realized
that they were a better "grouping" because they all contained the "ay" sound,
which in Japanese would be represented with the hiragana えい.

Likewise I and Y "go together because they both have the sounds あい.

I only use this example to point out that Japanese people are very attuned to
the a, i, u, e, o sounds, and can easily distinguish between an elongated ええ
(ee) and a blended えい (ei). In Naruto's answer from the other Stack Exchange
link you found, where he said that Japanese people would "sound out" the word
sensei like this

> せ、ん、せ、い。 （or せ、ん、せ、え。）

I am not sure that they really would use the second version... the combination
of えい is not meant to elongate the え... when I ask my fellow teachers to sound
out words containing えい like sensei, they have always used せ、ん、せ、い, and not
せ、ん、せ、え. The sound is noticeably different. "Relaxed" speech might produce a
sound closer to せんせ without the い sound at the end, but that's not an
acknowledgement of a deliberate elongation of え, that's just casual speech.

This reddit conversation follows a similar line of questioning, and might be
useful:

<https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/8zgwh7/in_am_%E3%81%88%E3%81%84_sound_isnt_the_%E3%81%84_supposed_to_elongate/>

おう on the other hand, is a different case. A う following a kana ending with an
お sound elongates the お sound. う is a "weaker" sound than お, and becomes
subsumed in it. When "saying it out slowly" however, Japanese people are
likely to enunciate the う sound as "oo", mainly to clarify which kana to write
down, not to imply that that is the proper pronunciation. This is because おお
combinations also exist.

to sum up, えい sound combinations are NOT meant to elongate the え sound, and
Japanese people are very aware of and can clearly hear the two separate
sounds, while おう sound combinations ARE meant to elongate the お sound, and
Japanese people recognize this elongation, and PROBABLY do not usually
enunciate or clearly hear the う within the long sound.

The one exception for this is when the う sound following the お sound is not
part of the same kanji the お sound is part of. As Eiríkr Útlendi mentioned in
the comments, verbs ending in う with a preceding お sound will clearly
pronounce the う, and this is because the う is the part of the word that
identifies which type of verb it is, and which ends up being conjugated. Also,
words consisting of multiple kanji, where one ends in お and the next starts
with う, will follow this rule as well. Where there are both in a single kanji,
however, the "elongated お" sound is the rule.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-12-20T17:40:29.210
64512
2018-12-20T18:42:49.337
2018-12-20T18:42:49.337
29347
29347
64493
answer