42459
today I came across a sentence with a structure I find difficult to
understand:

> 精神的｛せいしんてき｝な拷問｛ごうもん｝で最も残酷｛ざんこく｝な拷問というのがあります。

There are two things I find hard to interpret: the particle で in this context,
and the form of the ending, ～のがあります - which frankly I have no idea what it
means here. I came up with two possible interpretations:

  * It is psychological torture, and it is the cruelest form of torture;
  * In psychological torture, we find the most cruel form of torture.

If anyone can tell me how to correctly read the sentence, I will be very
happy! Thanks in advance.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-11T18:36:16.923
42449
2017-01-11T22:54:38.793
14037
question
translation particles
Interpreting the particles in this sentence
It basically translates to: "There is one psychological torture that is the
most cruel of all.", and the text supposedly goes on explaining about that
form of torture.

I can't correctly analyze the grammar for you, but I can give you an idea of
how you should read the sentence:

> 精神的せいしんてきな拷問ごうもんで

This で is the "interrupted" form of です that you use when you want to "go on
with the description" instead of ending the phrase there.

Ex.

> （この指輪は）綺麗でピカピカしています

With the difference that the subject is given afterwards, instead of
beforehand:

Ex.

> 綺麗でピカピカする指輪があります

というのがあります is a very common pattern that means "There is such a thing as ". It
is a little stronger than the simply "があります" as it gives the impression that
we are talking about something that is not "ordinary" but is very
specific/rare.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-11T21:52:40.430
42458
2017-01-11T21:52:40.430
9913
42449
answer
This one would kill me if I were a Japanese-learner, too.

> 「精神的な拷問 **で** 最も残酷な拷問 **というの** があります。」

＝

> 「精神的な拷問 **で** 、最も残酷な拷問 **というの** があります。」

≒

> 「精神的な拷問 **であり** 、かつ、最も残酷な拷問と言われている **の** があります。」

First and foremost, that 「で」 is **_not_** a particle. It is the 連用形{れんようけい}
("continuative form") of the declaration subsidiary verb 「だ」.

Falsely thinking that it is a particle should and will make the sentence look
grammatically awkward. Frankly, the sentence will not make much sense that
way, which, I suppose, is what happened to you this time.

Next, 「～～というのがある」.

This might also be slightly more complex in meaning than it appears if one is
unfamiliar with the phrase. The nominalizer 「の」, of course, refers to 「拷問」,
resulting in practically saying 「拷問」 **_three times_** in such a short
sentence.

The phrase, in this context, is used to introduce a thing that is commonly
called or considered 「～～」.

A literal kind of TL:

> "It is a psychological torture **_and_** it is known as the cruelest kind."

I used "and" because the 「で」 is in the 連用形.

A freer TL:

> "There is a psychological torture that is commonly called the cruelest
> kind."
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-11T22:46:58.953
42459
2017-01-11T22:54:38.793
2017-01-11T22:54:38.793
42449
answer