35959
にしても and としても...Don't they both have a meaning of "even if"? Is there any
subtle difference between these two forms?
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2016-06-15T17:51:27.743
35948
2016-06-16T06:28:33.957
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question
grammar nuances
にしても and としても, is there a difference?
This is a good question, I personally think. If you google it in Japanese,
even Japanese are confused too and I also haven't paid any particular
attention to when to use them.

Granted, **[this site](http://www.ravco.jp/cat/view.php?cat_id=4784)**
explains as follows.

About にしても

> ＊ A, if not B「たとえBではないにしてもA」：AとBの位置に同じ種類の語句を置き、A, if not B の形で使われる if は even
> if の意味を持ち、「たとえBではないにしてもA」（もしかしたらBかもしれない）という状況を表します。
>
> _A if not B_ type 「たとえBではないにしてもA」：Placing same quality ( quantity? kind? )
> of things at the positions of A and B respectively. The "if" used in " A if
> not B type " means "even if" and in Japanese it is 「たとえBではないにしてもA」,
> **expressing the situation "it is A but maybe it could be B".**

としても

From the link

> 「それで命を落としたとしても私はそれをやります」
>
> I will do it even if I may die to do it.

Expressing in English "even if".

For example,

My examples are...

> AにしてもBにしても同類｛どうるい｝だよ。
>
> The person A and B are same kind after all, I think.
>
> 私はクビになったとしてもこれを言わねばなりません。
>
> I must say this even if I might be laid of by saying this.

So in short, にしても does not have strong nuance of "even if".
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2016-06-15T23:43:37.647
35954
2016-06-16T04:31:27.277
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35948
answer
## There is some overlapping meaning. There are also some differences.

I think you may be touching on the deeper subject of the differences between に
and と.

Comparing the definitions of に and と shows that they can both be used to refer
to the **result（結果）** of something. に shows the result of _becoming_ (dynamic)
and と shows the result of _being_ (stative).

According to the 大辞林, the **に** in にしても is a form of the word なり which is a
contraction of にあり and **is related to なる**.

The **と** in としても is a form of the word たり which is a contraction of てあり,
showing completed action and **is related to である**.

```

    にしても ⇒ になるとしても ⇒ になっても
    としても ⇒ であるとしても ⇒ であっても
    
```

> **にしても** implies **"even when"** something _becomes_ the case
>
> **としても** implies **"even if"** something _is_ the case or **"even as"** ,
> **"even for"**.

Obviously there is some overlap in English as well between "even when" and
"even if" and I think that this generally agrees with the overlap in Japanese
between にしても and としても.

So let's compare two sentences:

> **赤としても黒としても** ．．．事実は変わらない
```

    （赤であっても黒であっても）
    
```

You could think of this as "even if it's red, even if it's black", which in
context might give you something like this:

  * "Whether it's red or black won't change the facts" 

Or you could think of it as "even as red, even as black"...

  * "Even as red or black, it wouldn't change the facts"

Or you could think of it as "even for red, even for black"...

  * "The facts aren't going to change for red or black"

> **赤にしても黒にしても** ．．．事実は変わらない
```

    （赤になっても黒になっても）
    
```

This could be thought of as "even when it's red, even when it's black".

In context, maybe something like this:

  * "The facts won't change whether we make it red or black"

Or you could think of it as "even for red, even for black"...

  * "The facts won't change for red or black"

However, using にしても I think it's difficult to get the meaning "even as"
because while として implies taking on a role _as_ something （医者として - " _as a
doctor_ "）, にして can't really fully express the idea of taking on a role.

Just as a final note, I think using the volitional ～しましょう makes the difference
between に and と a little clearer.

> 赤 **に** しましょう - Let's **make it** red
>
> 赤 **と** しましょう - Let's **say that it's** red
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2016-06-16T04:11:40.287
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