<caption><image_302>The image shows a man sitting on a stage with a microphone in his hand. He is wearing a suit and glasses and appears to be speaking into the microphone. On the stage, there are several bottles of alcohol on the table in front of him. The background is dark and there is a screen behind him with the words "National Society" written on it. The man seems to be giving a presentation or giving a speech.</caption><transcript><audio_303> was wir erstmal erfinden müssen, um optimistisch zu bleiben. Wir müssen eine Art Wachstum erfinden, der davon entkoppelt ist, von eben diesen Auswirkungen auf die Ökosysteme.</transcript><transcript><audio_304> realistisch bleiben, denn wir machen in dieser Hinsicht wenig Fortschritte dahin zu diesem Ziel. James? Grünes Wachstum oder weniger oder keine</transcript> illusion? I think it's something that we have to invent first in order to be optimistic  We have to invent a kind of growth that is decoupled from these same effects on the ecosystems but we should also remain realistic because we are making little progress in this regard towards this goal James green growth or less or
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