 So that's what we mean by permanent. But the permanent policy, usually, again, like I said, most people have a small permanent policy and then a larger term policy. And the big term policy usually is for those things while you're working to replace income, get off debt, fund maybe college education for the kids. There might be some other reasons there. There could be some business-related reasons as well. But going and saving and using those type of tools to protect your estate as you're building and saving is good. That's one clear thing.