 yeah yet to your point I don't think anyone will hold win-loss division like any other against a pitcher to me Cy Young is most excellent and everyone knows that MVP there's this weirdness a value in quality a p.m. Cy Young I think you could be on a team that goes on 162 and you can have a no no record with a 1.80 RA and when the damn thing like I I honestly don't think the Pirates well-being matters all that much