 That's right, exactly. I mean, if you dig into the concept of self-interest, and there's lots of sort of new work in economics even these days that makes this point, you'll find people's conception of their self-interest does usually include some notion of community, whether it's their immediate family or a larger network of their kin and relatives. So at the end of the day, self-interest is a social concept. And so the really important question is, what's the level at which