 This way out thanks Lou Sloan of Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Richard Merck and Brad Payton of Silicon Valley. Listener donors make this program possible. Ask us about how you can join them. Look for This Way Out Radio on social media. Email us at info at thiswayout.org or write to us at P.O. Box 1065, Los Angeles, California, 90078, USA. For coordinating producer Greg Gordon and the entire This Way Out crew, I'm Lucia Chappell.