 the discussion on development in human rights. Because from their perspective, it's like the white nations or the Western nations are telling them, oh, you can't do this now. You have to respect human rights while you develop. But they're like, you made all your money, you exploited all your resources and did whatever you did, and you got to where you are as powerful. We want to have the same opportunity to become powerful as well. So how can we talk about human rights, right?