 It hurt and it bewildered me, but it was also very eye-opening and sort of set me out on this journey. It seems, you know, we've talked with Frank Schaefer about this. His father was one of the founders of the modern right and was right in the middle of that. We've had a number of conversations with him over the years. It seems that the people who were true believers, who were really within the movement or very close to it,