 At that moment, I heard a scratchy tape of him. And I heard about his case. One of the ways that I heard about his case was I was in touch with a political prisoner who was in Holmesburg prison with Mumia. And that community of political prisoners, the white imperialists, Alan Berkman, a doctor, he was incarcerated with Mumia for a moment. And he kept talking about him. So there was this echo chamber going.