 he already had a whole career. So Bonds in Pittsburgh was already a Hall of Famer, gets to San Francisco, and it was during the Sosa-McGuire thing when it really got out of control and he said, you know, I want to have the public adulation they have. That's supposedly when he started using, and then he just took it to a whole new level. But if he hadn't, the argument is, if he hadn't, he would have been a Hall of Famer anyway. Would he have been one of the greatest of all time? I don't know.