 is no earlier than the 14th century. So it's from the very beginning. And they provide endless fascination. I mean, the idea of 52 assistants. I mean, just the limitless possibility of 52 objects. One could spend many lifetimes and not even scratch the surface. Ricky Jay, thanks so much for coming into KPFK today. Nice to be here, John. We spoke with Ricky Jay at KPFK in 2002. He died in 2018.