 um in many ways um the brutality of anti-democratic practices in venezuela and the corruption is a bit of an embarrassment for lula but lula um you know doesn't want to be tainted by his friend but he also does not want to be um but he also does not want to turn against his friend unless necessary so i think what you saw here there was a 30-minute uh telephone call between president biden and lula in which there was a joint statement in which both call