 I think you should ride a bike for the rest of your life. And that's what Dave Ramsey's telling people. Pay off all your debt. Don't even have a loan on your personal residence. Don't have debt anywhere. And it's just a terrible concept in many ways. Now, you can break this down into multitudes of levels of thought process. And I took it one time. I was listening to Dave Ramsey's show, and he said a guy called up.