 It's devastating. All right. And he talks about the debate, which is ridiculous to me. And I see this guy, Lickman. He was on with Pacman the other day. And he's talking about it. So Pacman says to him, well, aren't things different? He says, no, the debates mean nothing. That's an old way of looking at it. I don't agree at all. That's fighting the last war, not this war. Yes, the debates mean something. And he's comparing it to 1960. Right.