 is that now the norm in the nba that if you stay till 23 no matter how great a collegiate season you have there's no way you're going to be a lottery pick um not no way but it's definitely harder and the numbers kind of bear this out if you look at just sort of the history of older guys the teams have talked themselves into um especially when the logic is we'll take this guy because he can help us right away he's so mature oftentimes