 which is coke for steel mills, an offshoot of coal, and did that for years, and he had no, and he was always like the president of engineering or whatever. He always had a high technical thing that you would assume would be a college degree today. He had no college degree. Yeah, a lot of stuff back then was based on experience, and you had to show up every day. 866-90-RED-EYE. Get in touch with Red Eye Radio, toll free at 866-90-RED-EYE.