 when their level of debt seems insurmountable? What do you recommend for those people? It's a great question, and there's not a simple answer to that. The one thing is I would recommend everyone start by going to studentaid.gov and looking at what options are available. That studentaid.gov platform is going to have all the applications, all the eligibility information. So that's one part of that answer. The other part is kind of more on the emotional and interpersonal side. And in terms of that, what I really recommend is that people speak more about their debt