 uh, management and owning mutual fund. Well, fast forward, I think 1993 SPY came out. That is the, the first exchange traded fund that started trading. And now the exchange traded, uh, exchange traded fund universe has exploded and assets have exploded in that world. Uh, and, and so the difference between them is on their face, they're very, very similar. Like they are both, you know, for example, uh,