 years and years ago and it was soon after my dad had passed away and i had actually called him and got in contact with him to talk about an alien type situation he was he loved bud hopkins as well and was working with bud hopkins and and um i knew bud but more so david jacobs and so i was talking i went to talk to him about that and for some reason the conversation went to life after death and this was a long time ago which was weird because that's really kind of his thing isn't it that's