 alien type situation he was he loved Bud Hopkins as well it was working with Bud Hopkins and and I knew Bud but more so David Jacobs and so I was talking I went to talk to him about that and for some reason the conversation went to life after death and this was a long time ago which was weird because that's really kind of his thing isn't it that's that is is that his biggest question and and how did is that how all this came about