 And that I was reading a second ago, and I think this is an accurate description, is that he's somewhere between Philly Joe and Max Roach in his sound. I'm not totally sure how to describe what that is, if that's about the way he's riding his ride or if that's how he's playing the hi-hat. But I think that makes sense to me somehow. Perhaps you can hear it better than I can. Up next from A Garland of Red is going to be him with Red Garland and Paul Chambers.