 I think the science is really clear-cut that whether you care about climate change or biodiversity or feeding the world or all three of those things, it's absolutely clear that we need to reduce by a long way the amount of meat and dairy in our diet. Mike paints a stark picture here. Farmers are in a tricky situation because most of the farmers I know absolutely want to look after the environment and they'd like to earn a living. There are pathways through this.