 Isn't it beautiful? We started off a conversation, Darshani, about empathy and we've ended up a conversation about optimism. Yes, yes, exactly. Thank you so much. It was very good to have you both on. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting us. I was talking to Leslie Odwin and Evan Sandale about teaching empathy to children. I'm Darshani Navanayagam and you've been listening to The Conversation. We're back next week. Bye for now.