 That really was all, for me, really formulated through that spiritual and cultural experiences and as part of a tribal community who often was at odds with the Forest Service management, particularly around timber and fire suppression. Me, and as I got older, I thought, well, if you're working internally, you can change the system. But there also was a lot of, I think, why aren't you going to work for the tribe or why are you deciding to work for the Forest Service? There was some of that animosity or some of those comments as well when I was a younger starting professional.