 a growing interest in tribal consultation or learning and working with tribes. You went into work for this big agency responsible for Smokey the Bear and putting out every fire and fire is bad. We got to minimize it. What did your indigenous friends say when you went to go to this big agency that had this totally different approach to fire that was very different than your indigenous heritage? Well, actually, we'd have to go back to when I was a child growing up here in Northwest California on the Six Rivers National Forest and Klamath National Forest.