 Roger, I'm curious if you have a different perspective. I think self-mastery is desirable, but not in itself. It's because people who have self-mastery and autonomy are happy. And there's a very strong correlation between good government and happiness or well-being. Thank you. We're going to wrap our discussion there. When we come back, we're going to continue discussing this question, the pursuit of happiness, virtue or pleasure. And we'll be inviting in some other voices to help probe at that right after the break. Thank you.