 someone out of one of these movements, you don't necessarily need to debate them on the ideology. In fact, I would recommend you don't debate them on the ideology, as much as that is satisfying to people like us. Unfortunately, the facts don't matter to people who are going down this path. But if you can get at the underlying drivers, usually the ideology just falls away. And so that's going to be the key to us actually solving this problem for America.