 We are breaking for the news now, but in the second part of the evidence, we'll talk about how much salt is too much salt, why the discussion around this issue is far from straightforward, and what we can do to make sure we are eating a healthy amount. Thank you so much, Penn Vogler, for joining us today. I'm Claudia Hammond, and I'll be back soon with more from Andrea Sella and DK Oji, and a new guest in the evidence from the BBC.