 You're listening to Radio Lab. This is Leeloo Miller. And we have been discussing what it means to see or not to see things in your mind. In the first half of this show, we focused on the science behind aphantasia and producer Sindhu's personal experience with having no mental imagery. And for this next part, we're going to hear a conversation Sindhu had with someone else who has no mental imagery. And this completely blew my mind because I know his work.