 and study the complicity of family members, and I learned a lot in that regard as well. Okay, let's take a short break here, and I promise as soon as the break is over, we're going to hear some of those recorded interviews that you did with Bernie Madoff. If you're just joining us, my guest is Richard Behar, and his new book is called Madoff, The Final Word. We'll be right back. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air.