 And with her $165,000 worth of student debt to become a marriage or family counselor, she's making $80,000. That's an interesting story about the value of education. The value of a trade in today's society. Mike Rowe would like that story. He would. I hope he's listening right now. He would be giving us his little Mike Rowe snicker. That little snicker of his. With that deep voice of his. This is The Ramsey Show.