 uh... first exposed to him through his uh... his miserable uh... written word in the hillbilly elegy and his life story is absolutely powerful and it's uh... it's something i think for people to to be mindful of exactly what he has overcome he was born into abject poverty the likes of which frankly very few people of fully understand real poverty uh... father incarcerated a mother drug addicted uh... very very very little hope and he managed to emerge from that