 from any other sessions. They didn't have any photos of their kids, but they recognized these small people behind them as their own child, which is pretty interesting. So if he was faking something entirely, he didn't have an existing photo to work with for those particular cases. So of course a lot of photographers challenged him and thought that he was just pulling off some sort of hoax, and they would invite Mumler to their own studios to replicate the same phenomena, and they would use his equipment, or Mumler would use their equipment, and they would watch his process,