 I spent 14 years as a pastor, but I was doing motivational speaking while I was a pastor. So Sunday mornings I was preaching, and then Wednesday afternoons I was speaking at Microsoft or General Electric or Harvard Business School, whatever. Then I left being a full-time pastor in order to become a professional speaker. And then I ended up involved in politics because my best friend ran for the governor of the state of Washington and lost on the second count. He won the first count.