 And how did that begin? Because now, obviously, you've got a New York firm hiring this talent and everything else, but in the early years, how did you get that kind of show over here? Harold went to a guy in Minneapolis that I think he had known somewhat, a guy by the name of Fred Smith and Al Sheehan Incorporated were the two original guys before Kurt, and said, here's what I'd like to do. I think they thought he was goofy as well, and even attempted it.