 but didn't really take his face seriously, kind of adopted the view of an atheist, and then kind of, in 2019, converted to Catholicism. But what I found fascinating about this is the fact that in 2016, he released his book, Hillbilly Elegy, New York Times bestseller, started thrusting him much more into a national spotlight. He was very critical of Trump at that time, but then it looks like he had a period of self-development for three years,