 And so at that point, there were so few ultra runners in the area that when I did the lean horse ultra marathon, he actually reached out to me and my running partner and was like, hey, it's good to hear of other ultra runners in the area. Can I talk to you? Can we meet up for a run? And so I started running with him, and then I asked if I could actually mentorship under him to learn the ways of being safe in the cold and did that for about four years before I actually did the event the first time.