 If you're Tony Soprano or Pauly Walnuts, it's gravy. Their sauce was so good. Have you ever eaten at Speakeasy? They're closed now. I have several times before it closed, and I still have a buddy to this day. He always ordered the same thing when we went there, the Snuggle Buggy, and he has tried everything to find out what cheese sauce was in that. I could find out for you real easy. Make one phone call and find out.