 And once I re-listened to these debate tapes without all the people in the room, and it was just her, maybe in her car going to the grocery store or something, but she was able to more dispassionately listen to and analyze what was in the debate. And she said, once I did that, and then I stopped myself and said, well, maybe that can't be right. And she went back and listened to it again and again. And eventually she said, well,