 So sure, you're getting the benefit that you're not having hormones in your system and you're still ovulating. But because of that, the copper IUD does not stop ovulation. So it is a 100% abortifacient because there is no stopping the fertilization from happening. And I know if they're not really on board with the spiritual side of it, I would look into the effects of copper toxicity. I think that's going to kind of be like a main point if you want to talk to someone about that. Sure.