 But with that said, the seven sorrows of Mary are for all of us. But I find it especially, I think, full of a lot of rich guidance for me as a woman and now a mother as well. Joining me in just a moment is Sarah Swofford. She's a mother of six and the author of the book Emotional Virtue and the co-author with her husband of the book Gift and Grit. Much of her work is focused on the topic of virtue. And I remember when I was working in