 And he knew that very well because he was actually a persecutor, he was a tormentor of Christians. And Carmen is right, he was wiping them out until he encountered, you know, that love of Christ. And so as he was transformed, you know, from it is no longer I, it is Christ who lives within me, on his own he knew, you know, what a miserable wretch he was, but in Christ he starts to be drawn into this