 That was producer Christina Kim speaking with sociologist Matthew Desmond. That's it for this week's show. I'm Randa Abdel-Fattah. I'm Ramtin Arablui. And you've been listening to ThruLine from NPR. Thank you to Alex Goldmark, Johannes Dergi, Reese Walter, Edith Chapin, and Colin Campbell. Fact-checking for this episode was done by Kevin Vocal. The episode was mixed by Josh Newell.