 And so there was always this sort of good natured rivalry between them where he was trying to convince her and she was trying to convince him. So when I kind of came into the picture, I would occasionally have lunch with them or talk with them or, you know, just kind of as a group, we would discuss this issue. And she was like as adamantly opposed to the Catholic Church as anyone you could imagine. And maybe you are one of those people. So imagine somebody like you.