 um i wouldn't be surprised you know a lot of people push back at me and say it's all demonic and i would be surprised that there's some cases uh that these are demonic uh encounters yeah some of the ones that are described certainly fit that profile yeah and uh certainly some of the abduction experiences uh one person involved in research at this called stem walker ranch where a lot of things have happened to me probably seemed demonic talking in one interview about how he