 liberal discourse say, oh, it's the neoliberal turn that began in the 80s, you know, with Reagan and Thatcher as the spokespeople there to blame for this big change. But you don't find that. I used to think that was the story. Like one of the reasons poverty has persisted in America, state retrenchment, like the state doing less for the neediest people. But if you look at the data, the reality is a lot messier.