 and paying tax on it and by doing roth conversion putting a plan in place for roth conversion what we're talking about doing is paying the tax now for the next two years at least at this point or however you want to phrase this for 2024 and 2025 we still are at the lowest tax rates we've seen since the reagan era and what we're talking about doing is taking the money out of your iras paying tax on it now and putting it in those roth accounts that way any money you ever take from it