 start kicking it out. So the plan that Lawrence and I came up with for them was to start doing these conversions, taking this $4 million out over an eight-year period, a very specific amount over that time frame. So that way, by the time we got them to age 75, all of that money was out of those IRA accounts and into those Roth IRAs. And the RMDs didn't matter, so we avoided that tax time bomb. And for them...