 It was not on MSNBC. I apologize for that. I want to get it right. Yes, it would be accurate. I don't want a capital J journalist to be upset with me. It was on NBC News Now. Tom Lummis. Which is their streaming service. Lummis used to be with ABC. I used to watch that in Canada, actually, when it was on. It's actually informative. It moves quickly. So they had him on to talk about...