 And Grant was saying that a council person can't talk to someone. Let alone the chair of the Public Safety Committee. Well, then I'm also concerned about the fact, when does the council say, okay, we won't have a hearing, but then bring a conversation into the community. If you leave City Hall and bring it into a school, a church, or wherever the case is, and talk about the same thing, well, you might not have these so-called experts with you.