 And when they thought about it, the ability to transfer the risk to the insurance company and have the insurance company itself guarantee that income. And so as you're contemplating what Karen and her husband did, kind of that pension replacement concept, you need to make sure that the insurance company, if you're going to use one, if that's what you choose to do, you need to make sure that insurance company is worth the guarantee that they're offering, right? Because it is guaranteed by the government. You want to make sure that they're there for 20 years because retirement is going to last you that long.