 But from what I've seen in the interviews I've seen, he seems like he's an affable guy that was likely taken in by addiction and by his own family, right? Because of the politics of it, it's a massive thing. Even if you're a nice guy, you're involved in this thing that's very big. And I get that. I'm not making excuses because I think it's shameful to do what was done here. But I'm trying to make sense of it from a very humanistic perspective.