 The Ramsey Show. So $209,000 paid off in four years. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? We did a budget for years and we didn't stick to it and that doesn't do anything. So you actually have to follow the roadmap. Do people think you're weird for doing this stuff? Yeah. He cut my hair. We re-roofed our house on our own. Dave, would Sharon let you cut her hair? No. Okay. Well, if you mess up, it just gets shorter. He's figured it out. The Ramsey Show on KMA 960 and KMA FM 99.1.