 And we struggle with that and passionately. But if your idea is so weak that you have to attack the person because your idea won't hold its own water, that's when you've already lost. And so then you've only got a bunch of people that drop to the lowest common denominator are the only people that will follow a person whose idea has lost but they're passionate about it. You've got to be able to argue on the points of merit. And that's basic debate.