 believe all human suffering and ills are associated with religious beliefs and so that's one of the reasons they want to give the bible and god and morality out of the schools absolutely and you mentioned horace mann it was the first ever secretary of education just for the state of massachusetts we obviously didn't have a federal department of education back then but he went to prussia and he studied this mandatory school system where students would be indoctrinated into absolute obedience to the state and we thought hey that would be great for the united states