 and whether or not they shake hands. I think that is going to be a powerful moment. One other point I want to mention is that it seems like both the Biden campaign and the Trump campaign believe that what they need to do on debate night is just fundamentally let the other candidate talk. And that if voters hear Trump or Biden, they will potentially eventually see the quote light and come to their side. NPR's Asma Khalid and Frank Ordonez, it's a pleasure seeing you. Thanks so much. Thanks, Steve. Good to talk to you.