 This was the fifth time these two had debated during this entire election, but unless national polls are wrong to an unprecedented degree, it will be the final time they ever face off in their current roles. For NPR News, I'm Willem Marks. And speaking of debates, stay connected with NPR News for live special coverage of tonight's CNN presidential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. You can listen live at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific on many NPR member stations and the NPR app.