 of Apple engineers. And there were a lot of flights every week in those years. I mean, I can't attest to this, but presumably the know-how established at the factories run by Foxconn for Apple phones swirled around to other companies and other industries like Huawei, which makes phones, and probably to the EV car makers, which are doing so well today like BYD. And reporter Wayne Ma explains in your podcast, Face Off, exactly how that works.