 And I've seen interviews with both of you. He's perfectly loquacious and everything else. When we went into Vietnam, I said, I think we're in the wrong place. I'm always getting a hard time. I said, if you listen to me, you used to have your brain in your eye. And he said, what do you think we should do? I said, we're usually also in charge. I'll just give you my stuff. But we're mutton, Jeff. We see each other about 10 times a year.