 I don't think that most Americans who are in that middle, who are trying to decide with an open, honest mind, who are not just partisan loyalists, I don't think most of the people who watch that debate came away saying, that's the guy I want to be, have as my president. So the reason I'm parsing this is that I don't think Biden, I don't think Trump gained votes, but I do think Biden lost votes. Jeffrey Engel is director of the Center for Presidential History at Southern Methodist University. Jeffrey, thanks for walking us through all this.