 Huge challenges, but he kept at it and he figured it out. And then once he'd figured it out, how to ice a rail car successfully, well, the railway said, well, no, we're not carrying your dead meat. We have everything set up to carry these live cattle and we get paid more because guess what? We're shipping all that waste, but we're getting paid by the pound. So no, we're not going to ship your iced dead meat rail cars anymore.