 as they learn what's going on. So, I mean, this show was very deeply innovative at the same time as it was troubling for people. And, you know, things like the reveal are a fascinating part of this to me, because that question of like breaking the fourth wall and letting people see the making of the show is part of what I was writing about. My guest, Emily Nussbaum, is a staff writer at The New Yorker and author of the book Cue the Sun, The Invention of Reality TV. We'll be right back.