 I went to interview him. On the agenda was, officially, was black programs. I could talk with him about classified aircraft development programs. And in the course of that, he said to me, I asked him the question about Aurora, and I said, come on, it's your last day in office. You can tell me, was it real? Is it real? And he said, well, let me put it this way. He said, we had a retirement issue with the Blackbird company.