 So I don't know about Ingo. He never reported to me, and I was in contact with him a lot. For, gee, how long? I met him in 84, and he died in 2013. How many years is that? That's 30, almost 40 years. And you got out of the military in 96? 96, yeah. So I knew Ingo, and I visited him on numerous occasions, and we phone called a lot. We had a lot of phone calls and stuff, and of course met at conferences, and