 You hear this over and over and over again. That's not only the way that it happens, but there's all kinds of factors that play in. We have to be honest about that it's complex, but that there is a way out. You don't need to be consigned to this as though it's your fatalistic lot. And so, folks, we'll be right back talking to George Carnell. The book is From Queer to Christ. Don't go away.