 Taxes are not going to go down in the future. They're probably only going to go up. So by using this today as a taxable, I'm going to take the money and get taxed on it today, they're going to get it at a lower tax rate. And then they can get rid of the 8% or 20% interest rates that they have. And they're still going to have some money left over. And then now it's going to be, if they're open to some suggestions on the remainder, I will help them utilize that money for retirement purposes. But paying off those loans and credit cards, I think, is a great idea.