 which led me to creating this organization. It's like, oh, the climate movement and these organizations like John Muir did not have black folks in mind when he created the Sierra Club or neither did any of his contemporaries. And so the idea of us going into these institutions and actually like thriving in them is nonsensical. And so it's like, OK, what else can we create? So I spend a lot of time in like the subversive, joyful space of like, no, I just like, no, I'm not going to do it.