 which led me to creating this organization it's like oh the climate movement and these organizations like john muir did not have black folks in mind when created the sierra club or neither did any of his contemporaries and so the idea of us going into these institutions and actually like thriving in them is nonsensical and so it's like okay what else can we create um so i spend a lot of time in like the subversive joyful space of like no just like no i'm not gonna do it