 veterans. I mean, they had been banging around. They've been doing all kinds of stuff. I mean, Denver, this is like his third or fourth series. He had just come off of Grizzly Adams, I believe. And we were blessed to have them. They kind of they lent a certain authenticity to to the television part of things. And John and Kathy and I were all newbies to the business. And so we learned a lot those first few years.