 yeah i think you're right i feel like i don't want to say the cliched thing but i think the sport and the commercialism of the sport has driven out the ability to get to know players so i think they're obviously some fantastic players but if you spoke to somebody in the street i'm not sure they'd be talking about them as easily i don't know we will ever emulate what pam was talking about you had such big characters who were allowed to be big characters who didn't worry about sponsorship as much