 trim off the ends and smash them? It all depends on, there's a different procedure for everything. So normally that goes, because they're so woody sometimes, that would go for different followers like, well, the hydrangea for one, and then what's the other one I'm thinking of? Not phlox, it's, I'll think of it, it's a very fragrant one. But anything that has a really thick stem, sometimes you just take a hammer and just smash the bottom inch or so.