 are the ones that usually uh survive very well or river birds so but they will get burst leaf miner every once in a while so keep that in mind and the product you use is permethrin or acetate and uh if you don't have it come down and we will sell it to you and uh it should take care of the problem and it's the ugliness uh will go away very quickly the miner is actually a an insect that gets inside the leaves and turns the leaves yellow and black so