 So I don't know if either of those approaches, and I have my own cat, I used to do this with him, little lady's hair clips, you know, the kind you put your hair up with the little jaws. It actually would induce my cat to almost like a kitten-like state where, you know, mama cat grabs him by the scruff of the neck and they relax. So for him, that was actually something that I could do things to him by just putting this very gently, you know, nothing barbaric here.