 I think that's what it was. And I was thinking about this at the time. I think that, and Lorraine brought this point up, I think that Biden, his people anyway, Biden doesn't want to do it. Biden does not do well at debates. He's never done well at debates, historically. And even if you look back at the multiple times that he's run for president, even during the primaries through the years, he's not done well.