 Betty Elin was the public affairs director. Mitch Levy was a talk show host and a news person. And together, they were very impressed by her. I was the executive vice president in charge of the NBC FM stations. I was, they say, running up the flagpole. I was at the top of the flagpole. Dan Griffin came to me, general manager, sat down, looked at me and said, I want to hire Dr. Ruth.