 And if we can't get to that point, I'm not going to be able to be here. And you need the guidance of a good counselor on how to say that and when to say that. I'm not suggesting you hang up the phone and say, Dave Ramsey said that. But I'm telling you, if you do not get there systematically and begin to put that in front of him, one day here's what's going to happen. And I know this because I've counseled thousands of couples.