 And that's as far as I'll go with it. And I don't have a problem with that. And I think just to be honest, we have to say that sometimes the data are not explicable by things that we are familiar with. And that doesn't mean that I believe everybody's story, because I certainly don't. And I'm 100% with you on Grush. I'm not convinced by that guy's secondhand information, not at all. And I disagree with Nick Pope's