 Joe didn't do an interview for a decade and a half. So guy hates the media and always has. And so because of that, the media has not enjoyed access to the Democrat president the same way they did under Barack Obama and the same way they will the next time a Democrat ever wins the White House. So they saw their opportunity to try to move this guy along. And they played along with him because ideologically they're simpatico. But overall, Joe hates the media and vice versa. So they would like for him to go. He is the least favored Democrat among the media.