 you know, provide new career opportunities and pathways for people who have been left on the wayside, essentially, in this economic environment that we have today. We're talking to Darnell Epps. He's a recent graduate and the founder of Thurgood Industries. Also with us, Kathy Hughes, a researcher with a focus on career and technical education at American Institutes for Research, and Jacob Prokop, the director of Pinellas Technical College in Clearwater, Florida.