 Three or four minutes. You know, again, again, I think this highlights the public defender issue that because so many people are represented by public defenders offices, a public defender who is walking into court to do bail hearings is meeting with 20 or 30 people before the hearing can start because they're going to represent all of those people in their bail hearings. And so what that means is that they don't have very much time to get to know the person, to gain their trust, to gather information about the person themselves.