 but joe biden fit that mold that uh... that old uh... you know white haired you know comes across as the elder statesman i was vice president that was senator for half a a century et cetera et cetera where people you know can relate and he had uh... a degree of retail uh... politics to him where he was used to getting uh... into trouble in getting himself out of it using this chart so that made him a good retail politician