 And one of the things that most struck me is how absolutely sick with guilt they feel. They're really ashamed of what they've done. One of them is a guy called Dr. James Williams, who'd been at the heart of designing these apps. And one day he was speaking at a conference where the audience was literally the people who designed the stuff everyone who's listening to your kids are using today. And he said to them, if there's anyone here who wants to live in the world that we're creating, please put up your hand.