 some of the times where they shy away from things is because they feel like they have to have the solution and the fix for people. And like we were just talking about, it's very complex right now. And to say there's a right or wrong is this danger zone of sorts. And so being able to understand that you don't have to fix or have the solution, but you need to give people the opportunity to have the space or the resources. And that's where I think George can speak to what they bring in and what they do and how facilitating that conversation, to your point,