 I'm not bringing religion at all into this. I'm saying that these are a kind, these are comparable to experiences that are extreme religious experience when we study the religious traditions. But I'm not saying we need to turn to established religions per se to explain this. But what did Ezekiel see? What was the burning bush? There are incidences in the Bible that are encounters with, no, not UFOs, but with phenomena that are filled with light and fire and brilliance.