 what they're actually doing on the landscape, how their populations are doing, how they interact with people in those areas, and let's see if we can come to some way of having respectful dialogue about how to move forward with it. Spickelmeyer says keeping that conversation going is a key part of the center's work. We've seen so many issues where people retreat to their camps and they only talk to people who feel the exact same way they do about it.