 But this one looks just like the dummy rounds. Now, he somehow is connected to Miss Gutierrez in some way, this individual. And that's what he thought, oh my gosh, this is some evidence they probably need. He knows Gutierrez Reed's stepfather, Thiel, who is a well-respected armorer in the industry. And he says, look, this live round was made out of the same batch that Thiel made. I have it. And mind you, the prosecution for a long time had been trying to secure,