 for the bigger birds, the blue jays and the cardinals, to eat out of. They don't have to struggle with the swinging feeder. And, of course, the squirrels go in there. So I have videos of the bluebirds sitting on top of the shepherd's hook and flying down and scaring the squirrels away. They do it all the time. That's great. Great talking to you, Diane. Thanks for sharing this experience.