 or they're worried about where they're going to spend eternity and they don't know how to spend a rainy Saturday afternoon. I think that it's, in fact, something that makes a relevant difference right down here on Earth. All right. Vern Grimsley, my in-studio guest. We're talking on religion and philosophy this evening. He is director of the Spiritual Renaissance Institute. Good evening. You're on KTOK with Vern Grimsley. John, I have some questions for Vern. What I was going to say, Mr. Grimsley, I really hope that heaven isn't paved with gold because...