 and to keep going on, but it never, never, he never changed his focus. If I remember, he lived down in Florida, didn't he? Yes, he did. He lived down in Florida, and I believe it was maybe 2014. I can't remember exactly the time, but I was attending a UFO conference in Sebring. Paula Harris was with Starworks USA. Right. Had a conference going on. So Jennifer Stein, another person very involved in the field,