 you can run those numbers out and say, well, does it really make a difference? Most of the time, it's not going to make a big financial difference. But then you need to think about the value side of it. What just makes you feel better? And that's where we do find that even if financially I could say, well, there's not a logical reason to focus on paying down that low interest rate debt. Some people just go, man, if I could enter retirement and just know that that was off the table,