 John Mack found that article and he said, that's very fascinating. But are they real? Are these events really happening? So he sent me an email, said we need to talk. I knew who John Mack was and I said, I'd be happy to. So we we got to know each other and we had many very interesting conversations over the years. And he was he was so what he did, he went on to become one of the leading researchers of individuals who have direct encounters