 And they establish this place in North Africa, and it becomes a great trading thing, and they're really good at the sea. And they start coming into conflict with the Romans. And the next thing you know, they're fighting, and the Romans are not great at the sea, beginning, and then they have naval battles, and they win, the Carthaginians win the Arab ones, and then the Romans start winning them. And the next thing you know, they have land battles, they get closer to each other.