 the idea of redemptive suffering so if you can help your friends to see that this is not how the scriptures speak about suffering it's not how our lord speaks about it or the saints or the church and to see instead that that god is uh he doesn't punish us in that way punishment of god is only when we separate ourselves from him right and that's what that's what constitutes the punishment of hell and it's not even a choice by god that's our own choice that we make uh in the face of