 Nancy Rumble on Reeds, all kinds of people in there. And that came out of Mary Middlefield in Heart's Desire. And that's it for this first hour of Echoes today. If you want to get in touch with us, go to our website. That is at echoes.org. Jeff Tam produces the show. Partial funding is made possible by the Blatt Family Foundation. Additional funding comes from our PRX affiliate stations.