 that will really end abortion. That's it. Patrick T. Brown, fellow with the Ethics and Public Policy Center, joins me. His work, he works with the Life and Family Initiative, and they focus on developing a robust pro-family economic agenda that supports families as the cornerstone of a healthy and flourishing society. I read an article, I guess it was over the weekend, I think it was by Catherine Lopez, and she made the case, and it's kind of an interesting thought here,