 The white guy, it's on the Internet. You can look it up. The white guy, he was a North Carolinian who'd gone over to Afghanistan at the end of the Soviet experience and had worked with the Mujahideen, converted to Islam, and then he stayed. And then he brought them over here. This was his private al-Qaeda army. I was a hands, arms reach away from al-Qaeda, looking at him eyeball to eyeball.