 rather than the traditional scientist says, no, it's all hallucinatory. What does science, what does science say about this though, Doug? Well, you know, there's, there's the people who are the critics of metaphysics, right? And a lot of those people would be, would be labeled as science, scientism, right? It's kind of like a religious belief in classical physics, pseudo, pseudo science. Well, there's scientism. It's like, it's like they're scientists who say, no, this, this phenomena can't exist, right?