These are just what I wanted. I wear 8.5 and these 8.5's fit perfectly. If you want room for really thick socks, order up a half size. My socks today are actually relatively thick and I'm OK. My calf is about 15.5 and I have room to tuck even normal jeans into them but they're perfect with jeggings. The foot is a little stiff but I went over them with mink oil and walking around a work today I'm having no problem.