I don't know what I was thinking. Dickies are work pants and they are thick. Very thick and stiff.  I was thinking that these would just be "fashion" khakis. I literally washed and dried them over a dozen times before even attempting to wear them and they're still stiff. I do like them, they just need to be worn in. I just kept them in the laundry room and put them in with every light colored load for a month or more before starting to wear them.