i needed a pair of khakis for the standard uniform at the daycare job i just started. so i ordered these according to my jean size (because they look like jeans right?) so i went with size 11 and they fit nicely, a little tight and working in a daycare requires A LOT OF MOVING. non stop moving. so i kept them and ordered another size up which was 13. im 52, 160lbs. they're perfect!