After years away from these pants, I'd decided to come back but was unsure of my size. I ordered a size based primarily on the size chart, but also the persuasion of previous reviews which suggest to order up. That was a mistake. Im going to return them and get a smaller size which I think will do the trick. I do care to mention that though I am short these pants are close to 8inches long on me. Good thing I know a great tailor.