I knew this show was a difficult shoe to fit based on other reviews. So I went to the store to try on a pair. Another women who was also a size 8.5 was trying on the exact same shoe. We tried them on at REI where they have a small simulated hill. When walking down the hill we both made our decision. I decided I needed to stay with 8.5 or toe hit front of shoe. She went with 8. I came home to order as I wanted this color. They arrived and are way too big. Went to exchange them and they are not out of this color. I feel like the shoe is wide in the heel with the 8.5 and snug with the 8... not sure what I'll do. Likely start over and find a different shoe. Bummed because Salomon makes a great trail runner.