My goodness...A lot of posting for a Friday night! I just got in, and will try to put down some intelligent remarks despite my fatigue...So here we go, one by one:    First, to FrancaisFier:       PS. Votre francais est tres bien. Vous avez l'etudie a l'ecole?    Oui...Evidemment, je suis anglophone d'origine, mais j'ai appris le francais a l'ecole.    Halcyon Dusk:       Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of you are genuinely well-educated people (save for the subject of multiculturalism and race-relations)... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   I'm sensing a hint of arrogance... do you believe that two individuals cannot be just as well-educated on a subject and still hold different views?    This was a mistake on my part; for this, I apologise. It was not meant to be arrogant at all; I certainly do believe that two individuals can be well-educated and hold different views.       Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How much of your 'white pride' is actually tied up in fierce American patriotism (for those living in the US)? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Absolutely none. I despise our government at all levels. I refuse to vote in any election, on any level, as all political-types are the worst kind of manipulative liars.    Ah...Something that we can agree on! But...does this mean you're an anarchist as well?       Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How can you then go on to denounce actions by large American corporations shipping huge percentages of jobs south to Mexico or overseas? These are white men doing this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   These are Jews doing this.    This, however, I will take exception to. The majority of top C-, V-, and E-level decision makers of American corporations are, in fact, Caucasian. There are a considerable number of Jews, but far from all of them by any extent of the imagination.       MTV and horrid American radio are the reason why I cannot make much of a living playing the type of music that I play.    A musician? I'm a musician myself. Electronica, I produce drum and bass. What are you into?       Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...I'm not here to argue you;... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...What I AM here to do: argue, discuss... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   I'm shocked that nobody caught this already! Do I get a special prize?    lol...You took two contradictory statements out of context...I'm going to have to be more careful around you...lol.    Now, on to sparrow:       1. If, the next time you went to the movies, a large number of Blacks were making a lot of noise and disrupting the film. Would you tell them to stop?  2. Same example, another person asked them to stop, and rather than stop, they rushed up the stairs en masse and started beating him senseless. What would you do? Really. And by the way the man is White.  3. Afterwards... how would you feel. What if they beat him to death? What if they only left him unconcious? How would that affect your opinions. How would it make you feel, if no one in that room helped the man being beaten?  4. How do you think that would be responded to in the community. Would it be reported in the News, on the Radio, on TV? The police, who would you expect the police to act? What if they did nothing, who would that effect your opinions.  5. Now switch the roles, what if instead of a gang of Blacks it was a gang of whites, who beat up on a Black Man. How would that be reported in the Media? What would be the community response.    You have taken an entirely hypothetical context, and expect me to debate valid points? These are perfectly legitamate questions, and can be answered in terms of social dynamics and group influences, yet I can't help but feel that an issue presented in such a biased manner has no right answer. Logically, I would detest any such action, whether it was the action of whites or blacks, japanese or arabs. That, my friend, is one hell of a Pandora's box of a question.    And now to Ron:       Do I hate blacks? No Do I hate Jews? No Do I hate Mexicans? No Do I hate any non-white? No I support the group from which I come. Just like other groups in this country support there own interests. However, when whites claim this same privilege we are described as racist. Now, you explain it.    Ah...This, now this is the fine line that interests me so. This, to me, seems perfectly fine. And now a short sordid background of myself, to provide some relevance: I'm Armenian. Born in Florida, now living in Canada. Armenian father, New Yorker mother. When somebody asks me what I am, I respond that I'm a Canadian. If they want to know more, then I will answer that I am Armenian. I am fiercely proud of my Armenian heritage and what it entails. What does it entail? As a general stereotype, a tremedous hatred for Turks and Azeris. That said, I have a few Turkish friends. Why the hate? Well, some of you may know of the Armenian race as the first nation to have adopted Christianity as the official religion, in the 8th century AD. Others may know of Armenians through some of our famous figures: Charles Aznavour, Cher, Gary Kasparov, the guy who invented the hot-cold faucet, etc. Others may know of the Armenian people because it was at the hands of the Turks that the Armenians suffered the massacre of 1.5 million Armenians, now known as the 20th-century's first modern genocide. Hence, the stereotypical hate. The Azeri problem was through a historical territorial dispute which culminated in a 6 year war throughout the early 90's.    That said, I am probably just as guilty as some of you of being racially biased, although I do like to think that I can contain it somewhat, and be open-minded when meeting a Turk or an Azeri. I certainly do not go about promoting those facts on the internet as a member of an Armenian pride website.     But, herein lies the problem: Being proud of one's race and promoting it, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. However, when that pride leads to the oppression, repression, violence against, desire for termination of other races, that, in my mind, that does cross the line from pride to racism.     That said, I am able to recognise certain historical positives or influences that Turks or Azeris have had throughout history (though I would argue that they are few), and am able to appreciate these facts; something that I'm not sure how many members here are able to say about blacks and\or Jews. Things as trivial as foods--do any of you eat Chinese, for example? Stupid, yes, but relevant, to a minor degree.    That's all for now, my bed (and my girlfriend) call me...Thanks for letting me express myself and being open.