[quote=WASA;6016850]   Well very good rebuttal   As always:cool:,    but you see, just because you may look similar to those people does not mean you can claim their culture / innovations.   Genetics are genetics. Caucasian aka White genetics are White genetics, the products of White genetics are the products of White genetics. Geographical location means nothing, White people have roamed everywhere from Xinjiang, to the middle-east, to Egypt to Europe and the Americas, geographical location does not change genetics. A genetically White person is a White person no matter where on Earth they are or even if they're on planet Mars.   While the Greeks, Romans, and Byzantines were white they were still not northern Europeans,   So what? Northern Europeans didn't spring out of the ground in Northern Europe you know, they migrated there from somewhere else. Geographical location means nothing, it's all in the genetics. Who ever said that I myself am of Northern European descent anyway? How do you know that I myself am not Greek or Italian? Do you think we're Nordicists here on SF? There are tons of ethnic Italians, Greeks, Spaniards and even a couple of White Berbers, Persians and Lebs who post freely here on SF.   Northern Europeans were considered barbarians btw.   The Romans considered anyone who was not Roman or Mediterranean to be Barbarian. Do you even know what the word means?    Northern European innovation didn't start until about 400 or so years ago,    Hm..I dunno, I think Stonehenge was built LONG before that pal :D I think the Vikings, Germanic and Celtic tribes had already conquered land as far as the Black sea, the Mediterranean and in Anatolia and sacked Rome and even Baghdad long before that. I think the Vikings built the swiftest ships and discovered North America long long before that. I think the Pagan Celts were very skilled in astronomy, mathematics, etc...long before that... You obviously don't know much about the history of Northern Europe, of the Celtic, Norse and Germanic tribes. In the British Isles., and Ireland there are absolutely massive, man made hills and underneath them they are stone domes and tombs with extensive networks of stone tunnels and chambers that go all over underground. Many of them pre-date the Egyptian pyramids at Giza and Stonehenge, did you know that? Also, the Celts built many stonehenges all over Europe, many still stand today, Stonehenge is just the most famous and the largest one that still remains standing. Scholars even today can't figure out how these ancient people moved such enormous slabs of stone and built these structures. The Northern Europeans were much more advanced than many people seem to realize...They also built cities but they tended to build with wood so many of their ancient cities have just rotted away and have been lost to time. They rather recently discovered the remains of a large city near Stonehenge.   the Victorian era started in 1837, not too long ago.   Is this the old who's on first scenario? Which came first the chicken or the egg and all that jazz? Do you understand the impact that the Victorians had on human civilization? Industrial Revolution ring a bell? Largest empire in the history of the world?    And no I don't think Muslims are a race,   Good to know.    but back then there was only one race that were Muslims, mainly... Semetic Arab Sand n1ggers   .Wrong. Arabs never had any presence whatsoever anywhere north of what is present day Saudi Arabia before around the 7th century, before that the people in the middle-east, Persia, Anatolia and north Africa would've been mainly Caucasians... Your Islamic Renaissance took place from the 8th-13th centuries, it began not long after the Arab nomads conquered most of what is now the Islamic world. That is not nearly enough time and there weren't nearly enough dune coon/sand negroes for everyone in these regions to have been mongrelized by this point, we're talking about the middle ages here. There would've been alot of racially White people all over the Islamic world still, especially the upper classes, and especially in Persia, Syria, Lebanon, Mesopotamia(Iraq), and north Africa(like the pure ethnic Berbers). There are still to this day people in the middle-east who are racially White or only slightly mongrelized, especially in Persia and in regions of Algeria where there are pure, unmixed ethnic Berbers. So in the medievel Islamic world, during the time they were having their Golden Ages, in the days of the Arabian Nights..there would've been plenty of Muslims who were racially White and not Brown skinned, dune coon, racial Arabs, plus I'm sure not everyone was even religious or Muslim.  In modern times there are STILL plenty of people in places like Iran(Persia) and elsewhere in the Islamic world who look like this!:) So in the middle ages...there would've been much more than just dune coon racial Arabs wandering around the Islamic world....   http://www.bodazey.com/MODELS/KOUROSH_S/kourosh_14.jpg http://www.persianmirror.com/images/...adiabjolin.jpg     http://static.flickr.com/39/74969805_a3ad369c56.jpg   http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...8/80856959.jpg   http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...30278_L600.jpg  (notice that White girl in the middle?;))   http://www.mypersianbuddies.com/user...1607463086.jpg