 What the hell are you talking about? Yes stringed instruments, lutes, were introduced to the Blacks by the Berbers and Moors, and before that the Berbers/Moors had picked them up from the Egyptians, understand? Read son .  Not stringed instruments apparantly. Come to think of it I can't think of one thing Black Africans invented on their own without outside influence, you may be onto something my friend! :cool:  No. I think you're making things up now. :rolleyes:  Black Africans made boats before Egyptians??? And I'm a joke??:rofl for cripes sake most Black Africans still don't know how to make boats, you ever seen the rickety things they ride around in over there? Show me this 8,000 year old Nigerian boat. I never said Blacks can't invent anything, I said stringed instruments were introduced to them by caucasian north Africans because they were. And the first bongo drums were from the ancient Egyptians as well. They have found ceramic bongo drums inside Egyptian tombs. Once again....read how the lute was introduced to Blacks...from a Brooklyn Jew no less, even Jews agree with me on that, amazing as it is. riiight..Probably because there is nothing to excavate in the first place:p Once again....you ask for expert's opinions(besides my own of course) and I present you with a Brooklyn Jew expert who even admits stringed instruments were introduced to Blacks by caucasian North Africans, you can't cope can you?      My own take on this is that the ancient Egyptian lutes were, in fact, the ancestors of the West African lutes...  albeit, by a bit of a circuitous route. Here's how I see it: At some point, lost in the mists of history,  the ancient Egyptian lutes were adopted and adapted by the neighboring Amazigh (Berbers), the indigenous people of Tamazgha-- North Africa west of Egypt which is nowadays referred to by the Arabic term Maghreb. And it was the various Amazigh tribes who transmitted the plucked lute concept and lute-type instruments throughout North Africa and, subsequently, to West Africa, by way of present-day Mauritania and the Sahara. My line of reasoning is as follows:   The earliest archaeological evidence we have of lute family instruments comes from the Uruk Period (c.4500-3100 BCE) of Ancient Sumer in Mesopotamia.  Likewise, the archaeological record indicates that lutes were probably introduced into Egypt during the reign of the Hyksos (c.1640-1540 BCE), nomadic Semites from ancient Canaan and Syria.  This being the case, it stands to reason that the route for the transmission of lutes into Africa must begin in the Middle East and go through Egypt, rather than the other way around. The Amazigh, the majority population of ancient Libya, were definitely known to the ancient Egyptians both as neighbors, trading partners, and, from time to time, serious foes. During the period of Pharonic Egypt's Middle Kingdom (c. 2200-1700 BCE), the eastern Amazigh tribes of Libya, called Lebu by their Egyptian neighbors, became vassals of the pharaohs. There were Amazigh settlements in Egypt and many Amazigh served as mercenaries in the Egyptian military, several rising to great prominence in Egyptian society. Around 945 BCE, an Amazigh official became Pharaoh Sheshonq I, founder of the 22nd Dynasty (c. 945-730 BCE), the first of the two Libyan Dynasties. There are still Amazigh communities in modern-day Egypt, the most prominent being the Zenatiya of the Siwa oasis who speak Siwi, an Amazigh language, rather than Arabic.  Of all of ancient Egypt's neighbors, it's only the various Amazigh peoples which have an extant tradition of plucked lutes that most likely pre-dates the Arab conquest of North Africa (647- 945 CE).  Take for example the Nubians, the descendants of the ancient black African people who lived in what's now southern Egypt and northern Sudan and created the Nile kingdoms of Kush (c.1550-590 BCE), Napata (c. 590-270 BCE), and Meroe (c. 270 BCE - 350 CE). Prior to the recent introduction of the Arab oud by modern Nubian musician Hamza el-Din,  the Nubians did not have plucked lutes in their traditional musical culture .  The lyre, which is played by both modern Egyptians and Nubians in rural Egypt, is the only string instrument which had a counterpart in ancient Egypt.  With the introduction of domesticated dromedary camels into North Africa by the Romans around 200 CE, the nomadic Amazigh tribes began a gradual switch from a horse and oxen-based transportation system to a camel-based one. By their masterful use of the ships of the desert, the Amazigh-- especially the Kel Tamashek (Tuareg)-- dominated the trans-Saharan trade routes between the Magrheb and West Africa for centuries.    We know that it was primarily the Amazigh Moors (the Arabs didn't achieve hegemony in Mauritania until 1674) and Kel Tamashek who introduced Islam into West Africa.  Prior to the rise of the Almoravid Dynasty in Mauritania (c.1062-1150), which waged jihad against Ancient Ghana in 1076,  the Amazigh Moors and Kel Tamashek were the neighboring black African kingdom's main trading partners in the trans-Sahara trade.  In terms of musical culture, this is borne out by the fact that throughout the Islamic sphere of influence, from the Maghreb to East Asia, musical instruments of Arab, Persian, and Turkish origin were adopted by the various peoples and adapted for incorporation into the given local tradition.   West Africa is the one notable exception.   The plucked lutes found here bear no relationship to the oud, bozuk, baglama, saz, tar, and so on.  The instruments they bear evident kinship to are the Moorish tidinit and the Kel Tamashek teharden. This is especially true of the wooden-bodied griot lutes, they are pretty much identical to the tidinit and teharden, in terms of physiology and playing techniques, as well as the fact that they are exclusively played by the male members of specific castes.  Likewise, we can see that the West African bowed lutes-- the many different kinds of folk fiddles found throughout the region, such as the Mandinka/Soninke ngime, the FulBe riti, the Hausa goge, and the Dagbamba goonji, to name but a few-- are totally unlike the various models of rebab, rabab or kemençe found throughout the Islamic world. Yet, they bear a strong family resemblance to the Kel Tamashek imzad.   -- Shlomo Pestcoe   http://www.shlomomusic.com/banjoancestors_egypt.htm