Salman Khan interviewed on NPR's On Point

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Language: en

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Tom: From WBUR-Boston, I'm Tom Ashbrook

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and this is On Point.

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Salman Khan is one of the most influential

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teachers in the country.

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His short 12 minute video lectures

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are watched by more than a million-

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Watched more than a million times a month,

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yet Khan doesn't have a teaching degree

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or a classroom.

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What he has is a widely popular, simple,

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online method of teaching the basics

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of math, physics, biology, history,

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and a dozen other subjects.

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Because at the Khan
Academy, and it is turning

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classroom thinking upside down.

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This hour On Point, Salman
Khan, online instruction

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and the future of education.

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You can join the conversation,
is that you out there,

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watching, learning from Salman Khan?

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Has he become your online teacher, tutor,

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your child's?

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Is this the education fix
we've been looking for?

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We're at 1-800-423-8255.

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That's 800-423-TALK and you can comment

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at our website, onpointradio.org or

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on Twitter and Facebook @onpointradio.

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Later this hour, we'll
talk with Peter Norvig,

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who co-teaches a free online course

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on artificial intelligence
at Stanford University,

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which has already signed
up 58,000 students

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for it's delivery this fall.

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But first, to Salman Khan.

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He is making big waves
in the world of education

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with some pretty simple,
at least on the surface,

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video online.

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He got his start making videos

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about math and science.

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Did a lot of them with a
$25 headset and microphone

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in a little set-up in a
closet, just churning them out.

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Here's a video from last
year where he explains

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something pretty simple
compared to some of his work,

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how to calculate the square root of 100.

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Khan: 100 is the same
thing as 10 times 10.

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Then you know that the square root

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of something times
itself, that's just going

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to be that something.

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This is just equal to 10.

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So, the square root of 100 is 10.

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Or another way you could write, I guess,

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this same truth is that 10 squared,

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which is equal to 10
times 10, is equal to 100.

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Tom: Sounds simple?

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Maybe so, if you can figure it out,

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if it works for you, it's great.

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These videos have been
watched, at this point,

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more than 70 million times.

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Joining me now is Salman Khan.

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He's the 34-year-old
founder of the Khan Academy.

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He has three degrees from
MIT in electrical engineering

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and computer science and
a master's in business

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administration from Harvard.

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He was working as a hedge fund analyst,

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when his young cousin needed
help with her math homework.

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His tutorials for her went up on YouTube

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and became so popular that
he quit his job in 2009

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to run the Khan Academy full-time.

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Salman Khan, welcome to On Point.

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Khan: Great to be here Tom.

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Tom: You're really
shaking it up out there.

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I mean, well I heard they call
you a nerdy south Asian Seinfeld,

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south Asian-American Seinfeld. (laughing)

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Khan: I assume the nerdy
was an endearing form ...

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Tom: Absolutely. The highest praise ...

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Tom: Highest praise these days.

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Nerds are exactly what we need.

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You got SO many people tuning in to you.

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I know you told this
story a million times,

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but tell us once more, what were you doing

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when your cousin called up for some help?

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Khan: Yeah, she was actually visiting me

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in Boston from New Orleans
and she was in 7th grade

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and I remember we were
watching the fireworks

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over the Charles River
and she was doing all

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of these brain teasers
that I was giving her

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to kill time, so I was really impressed.

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And I was telling her the next day,

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that she should think about going to MIT

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when she applies to colleges

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and her mom actually said,

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"Well, thanks for saying that."

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When Nadia was away, but she said,

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"Nadia is actually having
trouble with math."

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So, I chatted with Nadia.

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She apparently had bombed a placement exam

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and she had trouble
getting units, you know,

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converting kilograms to
grams and all the rest.

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And so, I said, "Hey Nadia, how about

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I tutor you remotely?"

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So we started doing that
as soon as her family

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went back to New Orleans
and that worked out.

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Then I started tutoring
her brothers and a couple

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of other cousins and family
friends and then in 2006,

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so that all started in 2004.

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In 2006, I had a buddy and I
was just telling him about,

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you know, I'm just having a lot of fun

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doing this, kind of, volunteer
tutoring with my family,

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but I have trouble
scaling it now that I have

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a lot of family friends that
I was tutoring ... (laughing)

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Tom: Right.

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And he said, "Why don't you put some of

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your lectures on YouTube?"

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And I said, "No, that's
for dogs on skateboards.

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That's not for real math."

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But I gave it a shot and I
guess the rest is history.

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Tom: History, in a way,
give us a visual picture

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of these lectures.

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This is not you standing
up there in a cardigan

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like Mr. Rogers. In
fact, we never see you.

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Wired Magazine said like the Wizard of Oz,

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Khan never steps from behind the curtain.

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It's just you, your voice,
and scrawling equations

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on a kind of like electronic white board

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on whatever it might be.

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Khan: Yeah, no. You know,
after that first day,

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when I was attempting to make videos,

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I literally looked around
my closet and I had

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no video camera, had no
real recording equipment

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to speak of.

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I did have a USB headset
and I did a few web searches

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and there's this kind of software called

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screen capture software,
where it just captures

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what happens on your
screen and it turns it

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into a video and your voice.

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And, I said, "You know,
that's probably good enough."

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Because that's what I was doing with Nadia

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when we did our live sessions.

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We'd get on a speaker phone and we'd use

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Yahoo Doodle, which is
this little shared notepad

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and, not only did it seem to work,

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but it seemed to, in some
way, be a little bit more

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intimate than someone
standing at a white board

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and kind of talking to a class.

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So, I tried it out and, you
know, in those early days

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I was just like, "Look,
it's just for my cousins.

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They're not paying me.
Who cares of the quality."

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(laughing)

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But as soon as I did that,
I just got a lot of feedback

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from both my cousins and
random people on YouTube

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saying that they really
liked that form factor.

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That it allowed them to
focus on the content.

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They didn't have a distracting phase.

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It felt personal. It
felt like we were sitting

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next to each other at the kitchen table

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and staring at the same content.

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Tom: That was with cousin Nadia in 2004

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and then a few more cousins and relatives.

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We're just talking 6 or 7 years ago.

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Give us a sense of the scale of students

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around the world who are now interacting

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with these videos online
with Khan Academy.

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Khan: Yeah, we're now at about 2 million

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unique students a month.

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I mean, as you've mentioned,
they've been watched

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70 million times and yeah.

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That number has grown-

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The number of students
watching it per month

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has grown tenfold in the past year,

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so it's, kind of, on this-

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It's this surreal growth
trajectory. (laughing)

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Tom: And it's not just
the square root of 100.

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I was checking out your
little mini-video lecture

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on Tailor's Polynomial this morning.

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I mean, you're taking it
in all kinds of directions

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and it's not even just
math anymore, Salman Khan.

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Khan: Yeah, you know what?

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When I started this
off I was making videos

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roughly in, kind of, the pre-algebra,

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algebra area, mainly for my cousins,

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but the one thing that
started to dawn on me

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is that once I had,
maybe 100 or 200 videos

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for my cousins, is you
know, that's a pretty good

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scaffold of algebra and I said,

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"Oh! I wonder if I can do trigonometry?"

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So, another 100 videos later I was like,

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"Hey, that's a pretty good scaffold.

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You can always do more,
but that kind of gets

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the job done for a lot of people."

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I said, "Let me try to do calculus.

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Let me try to do physics.
Let me try to do chemistry.

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Let me try to do organic
chemistry." (laughing)

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So part of the fun of this has just been

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seeing what we can do and
the really neat idea here

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and it seems obvious now
in hind sight is that

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most of these subjects do not change in

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a dramatic way from year to year, so once

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you make a descent
collection of algebra videos,

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they're kind of good forever.

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I still redo videos
just to make them nicer

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or to touch on a point in a different way,

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but for the most part, they're
kind of evergreen content.

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Tom: You've got 2000 or 3000 of these

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mini-lectures up now, these tutorials.

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Give us the range of
subjects that you're in

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at this point.

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Khan: Yeah, there's literally a video

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on basic addition and the
mindset there is to have,

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so that everyone can feel like they have

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a starting point on
that site and literally,

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the videos go incrementally
from basic addition

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through vector calculus
and differential equations

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and college level chemistry,
biology and physics.

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There's a little bit on
art history, not art,

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on American history.

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So, yeah. It's a pretty
broad set of content.

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A lot of it on eco-, finance
and economics as well.

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Tom: Now, and at this point, is this just

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a little nice, free tutorial for people

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who happen to stumble on it or are you

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orchestrating something
that may be bigger,

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something different?

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Is this just the Salman
Khan's favor to the world

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or is this a game changer for education?

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Khan: Well, you know,
we'll see what it can do

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in terms of being a game
changer, but what we are

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is an organization, is
much more than me now.

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I quit my job in 2009.

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Last year we got significant funding from

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The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

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and from Google and other private donors.

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Tom: $1.5 million from Bill Gates.

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I think something like $6 million in total

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has come your way now.

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Khan: Yes, yes. And so, we
have a team of 14 people.

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I'd say about two-thirds of those people

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are focused on the software side.

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Khan Academy now is, the videos are there

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and that's probably
where most people's first

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experience happens, but
what we're trying to do

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is turn it into a full,
for lack of a better word,

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virtual school where anyone can go there.

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They have the videos on
demand, but they also

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have exercises and the
exercises start them

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at basic addtion.

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There's these game mechanics around it.

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It keeps track of their
progress, gives them feedback.

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If they have a teacher
or a parent that can act

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as a coach, it can give them
data and analytics on it

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and so, the idea is, if you have nothing,

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if all you have is access to the site,

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you can get a pretty solid grounding

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in a lot of core concepts and if you do

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have access to a teacher,
this has the potential

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to really super-charge what
happens in the classroom.

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Tom: And it's all free.

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We'll talk about how it
works for individuals,

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how it works in the classroom.

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Salman Khan is with us
from Palo Alto California.

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Founder of Khan Academy, Salman Khan.

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We've got lots of listeners
calling for you already.

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Channel in Hampton, Virginia.

00:09:57.936 --> 00:09:59.456
Channel, thanks for
calling. You're on the air

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with Salman Khan.

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Channel: Hi, good morning.

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Tom: Hi.

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Channel: How are you?

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Tom: Great.

00:10:04.873 --> 00:10:06.452
Channel: Hi, Mr. Khan.

00:10:06.898 --> 00:10:08.721
Khan: Hi, Channel. What's up?

00:10:08.952 --> 00:10:11.204
Channel: How are you? I love you.

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You're such a life saver.

00:10:12.959 --> 00:10:14.674
I love, I love all your lectures.

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I mainly go to the
organic chemistry lectures

00:10:19.581 --> 00:10:23.054
and I'm a college student
and they're very informative.

00:10:23.054 --> 00:10:24.250
You're such a life saver.

00:10:24.250 --> 00:10:26.957
I've gained all the
methods in such a short

00:10:26.957 --> 00:10:27.958
number of time.

00:10:28.880 --> 00:10:33.621
It takes, I mean, your videos
is about 9-10, 12 minutes

00:10:33.621 --> 00:10:38.867
and my lectures are about
an hour and 45 minutes,

00:10:38.867 --> 00:10:39.683
3 times a week.

00:10:39.683 --> 00:10:40.572
(laughing)

00:10:40.572 --> 00:10:41.447
Tom: So, what are you doing?

00:10:41.447 --> 00:10:42.508
Are you skipping your lectures and just

00:10:42.508 --> 00:10:44.868
taking Salman Khan's 10 minute pop?

00:10:44.868 --> 00:10:45.831
(laughing)

00:10:46.923 --> 00:10:50.059
Channel: You know, I
could actually do that.

00:10:50.689 --> 00:10:53.367
I could actually do
that because, you know,

00:10:53.367 --> 00:10:56.117
I understand it much, much more.

00:10:56.870 --> 00:11:00.518
When you use PowerPoint, it's just

00:11:00.518 --> 00:11:03.215
that when Khan does it, he uses a lot

00:11:03.215 --> 00:11:08.052
of colors, he- I don't know.

00:11:08.052 --> 00:11:10.056
It's just something that
he does and I'm just,

00:11:10.056 --> 00:11:13.553
it's so much easier to grasp and even

00:11:13.553 --> 00:11:15.755
organic chemistry itself is not one

00:11:15.755 --> 00:11:17.055
of the easiest subjects.

00:11:17.808 --> 00:11:19.884
Tom: Organic Chemistry?

00:11:19.884 --> 00:11:21.526
Khan: Well, thank you. I'm flattered.

00:11:21.526 --> 00:11:23.375
Tom: Across the country,
in Hampton, Virginia,

00:11:23.375 --> 00:11:26.999
Channel is on it with
your 10 minute videos.

00:11:26.999 --> 00:11:27.956
Channel, thanks for calling.

00:11:27.956 --> 00:11:29.916
We're going to learn a
lot more in this hour.

00:11:29.916 --> 00:11:32.628
Salman Khan is with us.
Founder and executive director

00:11:32.628 --> 00:11:34.561
of the Khan Academy.

00:11:34.961 --> 00:11:35.876
Listeners, you can join us.

00:11:35.876 --> 00:11:39.212
Are you, your kids, hooked on Salman Khan?

00:11:39.551 --> 00:11:40.374
Khan Academy?

00:11:40.651 --> 00:11:44.251
And what has made is
simple, online math videos

00:11:44.251 --> 00:11:45.472
and now a lot more,

00:11:45.472 --> 00:11:49.651
such a sensation?
800-423-8255 is our number.

00:11:49.651 --> 00:11:51.435
800-423-TALK

00:11:51.635 --> 00:11:53.557
Salman Khan, stand-by. I'm Tom Ashbrook.

00:11:53.557 --> 00:11:55.097
This is On Point, we'll be right back.

00:11:55.344 --> 00:11:56.867
(music)

00:11:59.912 --> 00:12:01.559
Tom: I'm Tom Ashbrook. This is On Point.

00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.150
And we're talking this hour with the,

00:12:03.150 --> 00:12:06.720
but now rock star,
famous video math teacher

00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.084
and more, Salman Khan,
founder of Khan Academy,

00:12:10.084 --> 00:12:13.420
a one-man, online education sensation.

00:12:13.420 --> 00:12:16.453
He has kids, millions
of them, eating up math,

00:12:16.453 --> 00:12:19.011
and physics, chemistry and learning.

00:12:19.011 --> 00:12:20.975
You can join the conversation this hour.

00:12:20.975 --> 00:12:23.049
What do you think? Is
this all we've needed

00:12:23.049 --> 00:12:23.607
all these years?

00:12:23.607 --> 00:12:25.350
A compelling guy online with a white board

00:12:25.350 --> 00:12:27.080
explaining it again and again?

00:12:27.510 --> 00:12:29.485
Students, has Salman Khan helped you?

00:12:29.762 --> 00:12:31.773
How? Why? What's it about?

00:12:33.020 --> 00:12:35.405
Is it about the way he
does it and what about it?

00:12:35.852 --> 00:12:37.750
Parents, has this been your salvation?

00:12:38.043 --> 00:12:40.252
Your good, free tutor for the kids?

00:12:40.452 --> 00:12:41.765
Teachers, what do you think?

00:12:42.012 --> 00:12:46.834
We're at 800-423-8255, 800-423-TALK.

00:12:47.096 --> 00:12:50.134
Salman Khan found out he had
one, pretty well placed fan.

00:12:51.195 --> 00:12:54.756
About a year ago in July 2010
at the Aspen Idea's Festival

00:12:54.756 --> 00:12:57.551
here was Microsoft founder Bill Gates,

00:12:57.551 --> 00:13:01.145
suddenly talking about a
golden age for online learning

00:13:01.145 --> 00:13:02.513
and Khan Academy.

00:13:02.852 --> 00:13:05.177
Bill Gates: If you're motivated to learn,

00:13:05.177 --> 00:13:07.757
if you really, really,
really want to learn,

00:13:07.757 --> 00:13:11.651
this is an amazing time for everyone

00:13:11.651 --> 00:13:15.257
because if you have access to Wikipedia,

00:13:15.257 --> 00:13:19.259
if you have access to the
latest information on the web,

00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:21.713
there's a new-, a website
that I've just been using

00:13:21.713 --> 00:13:23.762
with my kids recently called Khan Academy,

00:13:23.762 --> 00:13:27.100
K-H-A-N, just one guy
doing some unbelievable

00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:29.098
15 minute tutorials.

00:13:29.098 --> 00:13:32.051
There's great college lectures out

00:13:32.051 --> 00:13:35.187
on academicgroup.org,
so if you're motivated,

00:13:35.187 --> 00:13:37.354
now you can go to the very best lectures.

00:13:37.354 --> 00:13:38.330
Tom: (laughing) There it is.

00:13:38.330 --> 00:13:39.937
Bill Gates talking about Khan Academy,

00:13:39.937 --> 00:13:42.897
spelling out your name,
Salman Khan, K-H-A-N.

00:13:42.897 --> 00:13:44.853
How did you find out
that suddenly Bill Gates

00:13:44.853 --> 00:13:46.350
had your work on his lips?

00:13:47.042 --> 00:13:48.955
Khan: Yeah, it was
someone in the audience.

00:13:48.955 --> 00:13:51.683
Actually, our first
major donor, Ann Doerr,

00:13:51.683 --> 00:13:54.018
had sent me a text message
while that was happening.

00:13:54.018 --> 00:13:55.386
Tom: This is wife of
John Doerr, huge venture

00:13:55.386 --> 00:13:56.463
capitalist in California.

00:13:56.463 --> 00:13:58.531
Khan: Right, right. And, you know,

00:13:58.531 --> 00:13:59.713
I got that text message and actually I was

00:13:59.713 --> 00:14:01.669
running a little summer
camp for 7th graders

00:14:01.669 --> 00:14:03.593
at the time and had all
of these 7th graders

00:14:03.593 --> 00:14:05.451
running around, I was doing this, kind of,

00:14:05.451 --> 00:14:07.431
public trading, markets experiment

00:14:07.431 --> 00:14:08.814
and I got this text saying,

00:14:08.814 --> 00:14:10.390
"Bill Gates is talking about you in front

00:14:10.390 --> 00:14:11.415
of 2000 people."

00:14:11.415 --> 00:14:13.767
And my first reaction was that Ann

00:14:13.767 --> 00:14:15.055
just sent the text to the wrong person.

00:14:15.055 --> 00:14:15.889
Tom: (laughing) Yeah.

00:14:15.889 --> 00:14:17.852
Khan: She probably knows
people who Bill Gates

00:14:17.852 --> 00:14:20.756
would talk about and that wouldn't be me.

00:14:21.632 --> 00:14:23.678
Tom: Here you are with these lectures.

00:14:23.678 --> 00:14:26.036
What is it supposed to be?

00:14:26.036 --> 00:14:28.453
Is it a tutor essentially that you amount

00:14:28.453 --> 00:14:30.382
to online who supplements the teacher?

00:14:30.382 --> 00:14:33.027
Is it, or for students who don't get it

00:14:33.027 --> 00:14:36.112
or is it an entire learning
path in and of itself

00:14:36.112 --> 00:14:38.185
where students can just kind of latch on

00:14:38.185 --> 00:14:40.398
to your sequential
lectures and run through

00:14:40.398 --> 00:14:42.635
all of math or you name
it if they're ready

00:14:42.635 --> 00:14:43.540
to do that?

00:14:43.771 --> 00:14:46.177
How do you picture this being used

00:14:46.177 --> 00:14:47.851
because you're talking a mass scale here?

00:14:47.851 --> 00:14:50.133
You've got 2 million
unique users a month now,

00:14:50.133 --> 00:14:51.950
you're talking maybe reaching tens,

00:14:51.950 --> 00:14:54.261
hundreds of billions of
students around the world.

00:14:55.184 --> 00:14:57.897
Khan: You know, at least
for us it's kind of

00:14:57.897 --> 00:14:59.355
an open question, what it is.

00:14:59.355 --> 00:15:01.837
We're not 100% sure. I
think, to some degree,

00:15:01.837 --> 00:15:03.096
all of those use cases apply.

00:15:03.096 --> 00:15:04.682
There's definitely a lot
of students like Channel

00:15:04.682 --> 00:15:09.038
who are in a formal education
system, taking a class

00:15:09.038 --> 00:15:11.593
and they use this as, either a supplement

00:15:11.593 --> 00:15:14.452
or maybe this is where they're actually

00:15:14.452 --> 00:15:16.354
getting the information from and they're

00:15:16.354 --> 00:15:18.493
really using the class as a way of showing

00:15:18.493 --> 00:15:19.640
that they know the information.

00:15:20.148 --> 00:15:22.029
We have use cases where it's being used

00:15:22.029 --> 00:15:23.526
with the classroom, where the teachers

00:15:23.526 --> 00:15:26.451
are actively using the videos as a way

00:15:26.451 --> 00:15:28.755
to give students, kind of,
the first pass information

00:15:28.755 --> 00:15:31.025
and then that allows,
that frees up the teacher

00:15:31.025 --> 00:15:34.491
to, kind of, do higher order
interactions with the student.

00:15:34.937 --> 00:15:37.496
We have adult learners
who are learning calculus

00:15:37.496 --> 00:15:40.252
just for fun, so it's
really an open question

00:15:40.252 --> 00:15:42.661
on what this can be.

00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:45.529
Tom: We got all kinds of
response here on Facebook.

00:15:45.529 --> 00:15:49.104
Danny Leiss says, "My 3.92 would
not be possible without Khan."

00:15:49.351 --> 00:15:51.550
Marcy says, "The way teaching ought to be.

00:15:51.550 --> 00:15:55.491
Thanks to Salman Khan, my
6th grade son loves math."

00:15:55.491 --> 00:15:58.454
Now you've got a school system, Los Altos

00:15:58.454 --> 00:16:00.523
in California who's taken this on in some

00:16:00.523 --> 00:16:03.207
of their grade years in a pretty big way

00:16:03.207 --> 00:16:05.156
and from what I'm reading, Salman,

00:16:05.156 --> 00:16:08.160
it has ended up, kind
of, flipping the normal

00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:10.352
classroom routine in a lot of ways.

00:16:10.352 --> 00:16:13.423
That students would get
their lecture on the subject

00:16:13.423 --> 00:16:16.356
from you at home and
then in the classroom,

00:16:16.356 --> 00:16:18.291
essentially would be doing their homework

00:16:18.291 --> 00:16:20.251
with the teacher there to help them out.

00:16:20.251 --> 00:16:21.167
Is that right?

00:16:21.736 --> 00:16:23.243
Khan: To some degree, we kind of view that

00:16:23.243 --> 00:16:25.156
actually, as a first order
thing that can happen.

00:16:25.156 --> 00:16:27.308
And that was happening
independently of us,

00:16:27.308 --> 00:16:29.081
probably 2 or 3 years
into me making the video

00:16:29.081 --> 00:16:30.664
I started getting letters from teachers

00:16:30.664 --> 00:16:32.036
saying that they were doing exactly that.

00:16:32.036 --> 00:16:33.646
They're saying, "Hey, why do
I have to give the lecture?

00:16:33.646 --> 00:16:35.186
You already have that
lecture and the students

00:16:35.186 --> 00:16:37.088
can pause and repeat and
watch it at their own pace

00:16:37.088 --> 00:16:39.872
and move ahead or back-up
and review things."

00:16:40.164 --> 00:16:41.380
What we're doing with
Los Altos, I would say,

00:16:41.380 --> 00:16:43.666
is even a step deeper where
they're using the videos

00:16:43.666 --> 00:16:45.329
and they're using our software platform

00:16:45.329 --> 00:16:47.493
where every student in these classrooms

00:16:47.493 --> 00:16:50.664
is working at their own pace and whether

00:16:50.664 --> 00:16:52.404
they're at home or in the classroom,

00:16:52.404 --> 00:16:54.350
they might, at that moment, watch a video

00:16:54.350 --> 00:16:58.492
or they might do exercises
and it's all self-directed

00:16:58.492 --> 00:17:00.547
and what happens when
they go into the classroom

00:17:00.547 --> 00:17:01.951
is that the teacher gets a dashboard

00:17:01.951 --> 00:17:04.250
seeing where every student
is and it highlights

00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:07.412
the students who look
like they really need help

00:17:07.412 --> 00:17:10.154
and so the teacher, every
moment of a teachers time,

00:17:10.154 --> 00:17:11.852
instead of lecturing or grading papers

00:17:11.852 --> 00:17:14.050
or any of the rest, is spent doing direct

00:17:14.050 --> 00:17:16.302
one-on-one interactions or
small group interactions

00:17:16.302 --> 00:17:19.024
with students or even
better, getting students

00:17:19.024 --> 00:17:20.131
to help each other.

00:17:20.131 --> 00:17:21.890
It's pretty amazing when
you look at the classrooms.

00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:23.610
They're these super
interactive experiences

00:17:23.610 --> 00:17:25.450
where these kids are walking
around, helping each other,

00:17:25.450 --> 00:17:27.451
teaching each other and the teacher

00:17:27.451 --> 00:17:28.990
is actually sitting next to students,

00:17:28.990 --> 00:17:31.044
pretty much the entire class time.

00:17:31.044 --> 00:17:33.951
Tom: And in many ways,
going at their own pace,

00:17:33.951 --> 00:17:36.573
whether that means catching
up to where they ought to be

00:17:36.573 --> 00:17:40.560
grade level or in some
cases, going far, far beyond.

00:17:40.975 --> 00:17:44.642
I'm curious how classrooms
and teachers handle that.

00:17:44.642 --> 00:17:46.569
Salman Khan, stand-by if
you would, in Palo Alto

00:17:46.569 --> 00:17:48.450
for a minute. We have a teacher from

00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:51.024
the Los Altos California
School System with us.

00:17:51.024 --> 00:17:54.046
Courtney Cadwell joins
us now from Los Altos.

00:17:54.046 --> 00:17:57.136
Courtney Cadwell, thanks
very much for being here.

00:17:57.136 --> 00:17:58.539
Courtney: Hi, Tom. Thanks for having me.

00:17:58.539 --> 00:18:01.406
Tom: You teach 7th grade
remedial math, I think,

00:18:01.406 --> 00:18:02.656
there in Los Altos in junior high?

00:18:02.656 --> 00:18:05.540
Courtney: Yes, that's
the class that we piloted

00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:07.352
the Khan Academy with last year.

00:18:07.352 --> 00:18:09.442
Tom: And you've been
teaching for 17 years?

00:18:09.442 --> 00:18:10.840
Today is the first day of school there

00:18:10.840 --> 00:18:13.071
in Los Altos. Welcome back to work.

00:18:13.071 --> 00:18:14.484
Courtney: It is, thank you.

00:18:14.484 --> 00:18:18.820
Tom: How are you using
Salman Khan's videos

00:18:18.820 --> 00:18:20.135
with your classes?

00:18:20.135 --> 00:18:21.294
What's it look like, Courtney?

00:18:21.894 --> 00:18:23.663
Courtney: Everyday looks
differently in my classroom.

00:18:23.663 --> 00:18:25.851
I like to try new things.

00:18:25.851 --> 00:18:28.053
I keep calling my students my guinea pigs

00:18:28.053 --> 00:18:30.339
and I'm trying to
differentiate instruction

00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:33.446
for them and do what's
best based on their needs

00:18:33.446 --> 00:18:36.310
and so, sometimes we'll
do the videos for homework

00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:38.002
or the practice modules for homework.

00:18:38.002 --> 00:18:40.073
Sometimes we'll integrate
them into class time.

00:18:40.073 --> 00:18:42.682
I'll do a lot of stations
where students, maybe

00:18:42.682 --> 00:18:45.050
watch a video or work
on the online modules

00:18:45.050 --> 00:18:46.536
for a little bit and then they'll do

00:18:46.536 --> 00:18:48.713
some group problem
solving or project based

00:18:48.713 --> 00:18:50.575
learning activities
and then I'll have time

00:18:50.575 --> 00:18:53.042
to sit with them, look
at the Khan Academy data

00:18:53.042 --> 00:18:55.689
and really target my
intervention strategies

00:18:55.689 --> 00:18:57.811
and my instruction based
on the data I'm receiving

00:18:57.811 --> 00:18:59.081
from their practice modules.

00:18:59.281 --> 00:19:00.402
Tom: So, it's not just these lectures?

00:19:00.402 --> 00:19:02.061
It's exercises at this point.

00:19:02.061 --> 00:19:03.424
Lots and lots and lots of problems

00:19:03.424 --> 00:19:05.273
that your students can do and you see

00:19:05.273 --> 00:19:07.661
on this kind of dashboard
how they're doing

00:19:07.661 --> 00:19:10.779
with those problems, essentially
as they do them, Courtney.

00:19:11.086 --> 00:19:13.452
Courtney: Exactly. I get
the data in real time,

00:19:13.452 --> 00:19:15.896
so I know exactly who's
struggling, at what time,

00:19:15.896 --> 00:19:17.245
with what they're struggling.

00:19:17.245 --> 00:19:20.054
I can go look in and see
the types of problems

00:19:20.054 --> 00:19:22.596
where they're missing it, how
much time they're spending,

00:19:22.596 --> 00:19:24.351
those types of things, so I can really go

00:19:24.351 --> 00:19:28.058
to that child and tell
him or her, you know,

00:19:28.058 --> 00:19:29.952
"Hey, let's work on this together.

00:19:29.952 --> 00:19:31.059
Let's figure this out."

00:19:31.059 --> 00:19:32.997
And so instead of guessing, it takes a lot

00:19:32.997 --> 00:19:34.354
of the guess work out for a teacher.

00:19:34.354 --> 00:19:36.283
I can really go in there and figure out

00:19:36.283 --> 00:19:38.554
who I need to meet with,
what we need to talk about,

00:19:38.554 --> 00:19:40.566
how I can get them back
on the right track.

00:19:40.566 --> 00:19:42.562
Tom: Now, a lot of your students have not

00:19:42.562 --> 00:19:44.391
been real keen on math
historically, right?

00:19:44.391 --> 00:19:46.388
They come into this, they're with you

00:19:46.388 --> 00:19:48.303
because math was not
their favorite subject.

00:19:48.303 --> 00:19:49.575
How is this working?

00:19:49.575 --> 00:19:51.400
Courtney: It's been amazing.

00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:54.481
I've just seen a great attitude adjustment

00:19:54.481 --> 00:19:56.853
in my students. They love
coming to math class now.

00:19:56.853 --> 00:20:01.251
The online modules, the
way they have the modules

00:20:01.251 --> 00:20:04.451
set-up, it's kind of like
a game and they earn points

00:20:04.451 --> 00:20:06.374
and they earn badges and the kids are very

00:20:06.374 --> 00:20:09.043
motivated to work these problems.

00:20:09.043 --> 00:20:10.799
I could never get them to
work this many problems

00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.315
on their own and they want to do this

00:20:13.315 --> 00:20:16.542
and they look forward to
it and it's just changed

00:20:16.542 --> 00:20:18.306
their entire impression of math.

00:20:18.306 --> 00:20:21.069
They've also started to take
ownership of their learning

00:20:21.069 --> 00:20:22.900
because as they're
moving at their own pace,

00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:24.694
they can get hints and they can watch

00:20:24.694 --> 00:20:27.153
one of Sal's videos and
get a lot of help there.

00:20:27.153 --> 00:20:30.088
And in the past they've
been very passive learners.

00:20:30.088 --> 00:20:32.446
Just waiting for the teacher to instruct

00:20:32.446 --> 00:20:34.162
them and tell them what to do and now

00:20:34.162 --> 00:20:36.802
they're becoming active
learners and taking

00:20:36.802 --> 00:20:38.824
more responsibility with their education

00:20:38.824 --> 00:20:41.461
and really going for it
and trying new things

00:20:41.461 --> 00:20:43.760
and they know where to go to get help now.

00:20:43.760 --> 00:20:48.761
And it's been a great
change in them as learners.

00:20:48.961 --> 00:20:50.639
Tom: And you're speaking as
a pretty experienced teacher.

00:20:50.639 --> 00:20:51.833
You said they earn badges.

00:20:51.833 --> 00:20:53.069
This is sort of video game style,

00:20:53.069 --> 00:20:55.370
where you get, you know, little images

00:20:55.370 --> 00:20:58.050
and icons to mark your success as you

00:20:58.050 --> 00:20:59.151
go through these exercises.

00:20:59.151 --> 00:21:01.558
Courtney: Exactly and
the badges aren't just

00:21:01.558 --> 00:21:02.454
for getting things right.

00:21:02.454 --> 00:21:06.116
It's for perseverance and
trying and not giving up

00:21:06.116 --> 00:21:08.556
and things like that, so
even struggling students

00:21:08.556 --> 00:21:11.450
are continually earning these badges

00:21:11.450 --> 00:21:13.166
and they're motivated to move forward

00:21:13.166 --> 00:21:14.251
and not to give up.

00:21:14.251 --> 00:21:16.057
Tom: This helps in your classroom.

00:21:16.057 --> 00:21:18.248
Does it also blow up the
traditional classroom?

00:21:18.248 --> 00:21:19.847
I mean, I'm reading
here about some students

00:21:19.847 --> 00:21:22.456
using this in 5th grade
and they're racing ahead

00:21:22.456 --> 00:21:24.566
to sort of, I don't know, a high school

00:21:24.566 --> 00:21:26.377
or college level trigonometry.

00:21:26.377 --> 00:21:28.651
What happens when the classroom, sort of,

00:21:28.651 --> 00:21:31.603
en-fallow the threads
wherever they go here

00:21:31.603 --> 00:21:33.052
at their own speed and
they're all over the map?

00:21:33.452 --> 00:21:35.135
Courtney: Well, I think it does blow up

00:21:35.135 --> 00:21:36.456
the traditional classroom and I think

00:21:36.456 --> 00:21:37.334
that's very exciting.

00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.287
It's a very active class.

00:21:40.287 --> 00:21:42.811
The kids are going at their own pace.

00:21:42.811 --> 00:21:44.850
The teacher, you know, kind of has to have

00:21:44.850 --> 00:21:47.132
a good working knowledge of math so you

00:21:47.132 --> 00:21:49.957
can intervene at multiple
levels at any one time.

00:21:49.957 --> 00:21:51.643
You never really know
what the day is going

00:21:51.643 --> 00:21:53.452
to look like when you're
using the Khan Academy

00:21:53.452 --> 00:21:55.704
in your classroom, but
the kids are motivated.

00:21:56.288 --> 00:21:58.285
They're moving ahead. They're doing well.

00:21:58.285 --> 00:22:01.453
We're getting great feedback
from the Khan Academy,

00:22:01.453 --> 00:22:04.956
but also from our other
testing situations as well.

00:22:04.956 --> 00:22:07.955
So, it's a very positive thing and I think

00:22:07.955 --> 00:22:10.297
it's stretching us as educators starting

00:22:10.297 --> 00:22:13.371
to think about how we do math education

00:22:13.371 --> 00:22:15.550
in our classrooms, what those
classrooms will look like

00:22:15.550 --> 00:22:17.872
and I think the Khan Academy is a step

00:22:17.872 --> 00:22:20.034
in the right direction
and it's a good bridge

00:22:20.034 --> 00:22:22.367
between, you know, the past and the future

00:22:22.367 --> 00:22:24.951
of education with this online platform.

00:22:24.951 --> 00:22:26.871
Tom: There's an awful
lot of online material

00:22:26.871 --> 00:22:28.752
and digital material available today.

00:22:28.752 --> 00:22:31.051
Why this one? I know
they came to Los Altos

00:22:31.051 --> 00:22:33.239
and so your whole school
system is involved in it,

00:22:33.239 --> 00:22:36.252
but is it because it's
free, not a small thing?

00:22:36.252 --> 00:22:38.954
Is it somehow because
of, I mean, Salman Khan

00:22:38.954 --> 00:22:40.908
does most of these
himself and he's got this

00:22:40.908 --> 00:22:43.867
kind of, forgive me Salman,
but it's a little bit

00:22:43.867 --> 00:22:46.059
doofisey, or it's a real casual, sort of,

00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:48.096
presentations, it's not polished up.

00:22:48.096 --> 00:22:48.920
(laughing)

00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:50.380
Is it because it's free, Courtney?

00:22:50.380 --> 00:22:51.784
Is it because you've got Salman just

00:22:51.784 --> 00:22:52.839
kind of laying it out there?

00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:53.527
What is it?

00:22:53.527 --> 00:22:55.250
Courtney: I think it's
definitely a little bit

00:22:55.250 --> 00:22:57.380
of both. Free is very nice
for our school district

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:00.352
and this financial climate and then having

00:23:00.352 --> 00:23:04.420
the access to Salman
and his crew over there

00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:06.547
at the Khan Academy is
very helpful as well,

00:23:06.547 --> 00:23:09.351
but it's, you know, it's very simple.

00:23:09.351 --> 00:23:10.451
It's very engaging.

00:23:10.451 --> 00:23:12.445
His videos are straight forward.

00:23:12.445 --> 00:23:13.643
They're very conversational.

00:23:14.443 --> 00:23:16.329
You can sit down and learn something

00:23:16.329 --> 00:23:18.411
just in a short period of time and really

00:23:18.411 --> 00:23:19.766
get a good handle on it.

00:23:20.458 --> 00:23:23.499
It's the online modules, are very engaging

00:23:23.499 --> 00:23:24.289
for the kids.

00:23:24.781 --> 00:23:27.091
There's a lot of stuff
out there and I think

00:23:27.091 --> 00:23:28.759
in Los Altos, you know, different teachers

00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:30.670
use a lot of different
things and we're really

00:23:30.670 --> 00:23:32.473
trying to create blended
learning environments in our

00:23:32.473 --> 00:23:36.351
classrooms and Khan Academy
is one of those tools

00:23:36.351 --> 00:23:38.769
and it's a tool that
I've really enjoyed using

00:23:38.769 --> 00:23:40.889
this past year and look
forward to using more.

00:23:41.396 --> 00:23:43.457
And I think the other
teachers in the district

00:23:43.457 --> 00:23:46.847
will buy into it as well,
but definitely the free part

00:23:46.847 --> 00:23:50.641
and then Sal is a very good teacher online

00:23:50.641 --> 00:23:55.329
and so that definitely boosts
his credibility with us.

00:23:55.329 --> 00:23:58.263
Tom: Courtney Cadwell,
it's great to have you

00:23:58.263 --> 00:23:59.762
with us on this first day of school

00:23:59.762 --> 00:24:02.055
in Los Altos California
and thank you very much

00:24:02.055 --> 00:24:03.351
for your time and thoughts.

00:24:03.351 --> 00:24:04.519
Courtney: My pleasure, thank you.

00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:05.950
Tom: Salman, stand-by for just a second.

00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:07.439
I want to get you back
in here, but we've got

00:24:07.439 --> 00:24:07.977
a lot of listeners.

00:24:07.977 --> 00:24:09.467
Jacque, in Charleston South Carolina,

00:24:09.467 --> 00:24:11.075
you're on the air with
Salman Khan, Jacque.

00:24:11.521 --> 00:24:13.175
Jacque: Okay, thanks. Hello.

00:24:13.175 --> 00:24:13.966
Tom: Hi.

00:24:13.966 --> 00:24:16.810
Jacque: I have only some
comments and no questions.

00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.059
First, I took organic chemistry in college

00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:22.551
and continued to have
an interest in physics,

00:24:22.551 --> 00:24:25.782
particularly quantum mechanics, strong

00:24:25.782 --> 00:24:27.964
and weak nuclear force, electromagnetism

00:24:27.964 --> 00:24:30.500
and other obtuse subjects.

00:24:30.884 --> 00:24:33.450
I read Scientific
American to try to follow

00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:35.853
these topics, but I do
that with difficulty.

00:24:35.853 --> 00:24:36.361
Tom: Mm-hmm.

00:24:36.361 --> 00:24:37.723
Jacque: And about a year ago I found

00:24:37.723 --> 00:24:42.187
Khan's lectures on these
deep, dark, mysterious

00:24:42.187 --> 00:24:46.059
subjects and his lectures
made everything clear to me

00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:49.451
and he beats the heck out
of Scientific American

00:24:49.451 --> 00:24:52.054
and that's all I had to say. (laughing)

00:24:52.054 --> 00:24:54.209
Tom: That's an endorsement
right there, Jacque.

00:24:54.209 --> 00:24:56.052
And let me get one more,
Rainer in Nashville.

00:24:56.052 --> 00:24:57.151
Rainer, you're on the air.

00:24:57.643 --> 00:24:58.281
Rainer: Hi, Tom.

00:24:58.281 --> 00:24:58.917
Tom: Hi.

00:24:58.917 --> 00:25:02.302
Rainer: Hi, I'd just
like to say I'm a senior

00:25:02.302 --> 00:25:04.543
in college and I've always had an interest

00:25:04.543 --> 00:25:07.451
in the science and math,
but around 8th grade

00:25:07.451 --> 00:25:10.881
I kind of missed a couple of key lessons

00:25:10.881 --> 00:25:12.835
in probably pre-calculus and so it made it

00:25:12.835 --> 00:25:14.374
really difficult for me
to keep following along

00:25:14.374 --> 00:25:17.652
in algebra, but this past year I decided,

00:25:17.652 --> 00:25:19.881
you know, I'm kind of
cocky, "Hey, you know,

00:25:19.881 --> 00:25:21.526
why am I so bad in math now?

00:25:21.526 --> 00:25:23.059
It can't be my intellect."

00:25:23.382 --> 00:25:27.560
And I went on and found the Khan Academy

00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:29.204
and started taking the
videos, but my question

00:25:29.204 --> 00:25:31.450
actually has to do with user interaction

00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:33.057
on the Khan Academy website.

00:25:33.457 --> 00:25:33.969
Tom: Okay.

00:25:34.507 --> 00:25:36.567
Rainer: I was wondering
if, this is a question

00:25:36.567 --> 00:25:39.051
for Sal, if they plan
on developing anymore

00:25:39.051 --> 00:25:39.716
in that arena?

00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.098
Tom: You mean like the ...

00:25:41.098 --> 00:25:43.127
Rainer: ... for the
trivial points that you get

00:25:43.127 --> 00:25:44.951
when you sort of complete challenges

00:25:44.951 --> 00:25:47.936
and watch videos, but I was wondering

00:25:47.936 --> 00:25:49.652
if they planned on developing that more

00:25:49.652 --> 00:25:51.951
and really what I had
in mind was, sort of,

00:25:51.951 --> 00:25:54.121
challenging other users to competitions

00:25:54.121 --> 00:25:56.813
or to math-offs or mini math competitions?

00:25:56.813 --> 00:25:58.752
Tom: So, sort of, community or social use

00:25:58.752 --> 00:26:00.367
of the site, Rainer?

00:26:00.367 --> 00:26:01.290
Rainer: Right.

00:26:01.290 --> 00:26:02.552
Tom: Salman Khan, how about it?

00:26:03.013 --> 00:26:05.050
Khan: Yeah, yeah. No,
that's on our pipeline.

00:26:05.050 --> 00:26:06.951
Something we want to do very seriously.

00:26:06.951 --> 00:26:08.552
You know, right now we
have 2 million students

00:26:08.552 --> 00:26:10.151
and they're kind of each
individually working

00:26:10.151 --> 00:26:12.052
on their own unless they have a coach

00:26:12.052 --> 00:26:13.748
or a teacher to work with and we think

00:26:13.748 --> 00:26:16.365
it could be fun to have
some of these challenges

00:26:16.365 --> 00:26:18.651
and have some, a little
bit of a competitive

00:26:18.651 --> 00:26:20.455
framework in place and
a little bit of a game,

00:26:20.455 --> 00:26:22.151
kind of multi-player gaming framework

00:26:22.151 --> 00:26:23.952
and we're just going to try to balance it.

00:26:23.952 --> 00:26:25.288
So, we don't want it to turn into

00:26:25.288 --> 00:26:26.454
an overly competitive environment.

00:26:26.454 --> 00:26:29.050
But, no. Completely agree and we think

00:26:29.050 --> 00:26:30.708
that definitely speaks to something

00:26:30.708 --> 00:26:33.740
that I would also enjoy
participating in. (laughing)

00:26:34.815 --> 00:26:35.174
Tom: Rainer ...

00:26:35.174 --> 00:26:36.622
Khan: So, expect to see some
of that in the next six months.

00:26:36.622 --> 00:26:38.804
Tom: Thanks for your call
from Nashville, Rainer.

00:26:38.804 --> 00:26:41.626
Sal, you're on the record
here talking about not just

00:26:41.626 --> 00:26:45.961
2 million students, but 10 or 20
or 50 or 100 million students.

00:26:45.961 --> 00:26:49.202
It's free now and you
got a lot of, kind of,

00:26:49.202 --> 00:26:50.622
foundations supporting here, Bill Gates

00:26:50.622 --> 00:26:52.113
and the Google and others.

00:26:52.113 --> 00:26:54.550
Does it stay free or are you building

00:26:54.550 --> 00:26:56.950
a gigantic business here?

00:26:57.473 --> 00:27:00.366
Khan: Yeah, so the simple answer is yes.

00:27:00.366 --> 00:27:03.752
It'll stay free. This was set up as a

00:27:03.752 --> 00:27:06.031
not-for-profit, not that
not-for-profits can't charge.

00:27:06.031 --> 00:27:08.181
Obviously, most universities
are not-for-profits

00:27:08.181 --> 00:27:10.119
and they're very good
at charging for things,

00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:13.151
(laughing) but the reason why,

00:27:13.151 --> 00:27:14.885
honestly why I wanted to
make it not-for-profit

00:27:14.885 --> 00:27:16.836
is so that I, or the
rest of the organization

00:27:16.836 --> 00:27:19.156
is always focused on the mission, which is

00:27:19.156 --> 00:27:21.232
educating a world class
education for anyone

00:27:21.232 --> 00:27:24.935
anywhere for free and so, that is core

00:27:24.935 --> 00:27:26.158
to what we're doing.

00:27:26.758 --> 00:27:29.080
It's possible, with that said,

00:27:29.080 --> 00:27:30.667
we need to sustain ourselves somehow

00:27:30.667 --> 00:27:32.661
and so we are looking for ways to do it.

00:27:32.661 --> 00:27:34.883
I hope that foundations
continue to believe

00:27:34.883 --> 00:27:37.751
that this is probably
the most scalable way

00:27:37.751 --> 00:27:40.655
to educate people and
have a high social return

00:27:40.655 --> 00:27:42.965
on investment, but at the same time

00:27:42.965 --> 00:27:44.051
there's other possibilities.

00:27:44.051 --> 00:27:45.638
You know, corporations have
come up to us and said,

00:27:45.638 --> 00:27:46.793
"Hey, can we use this for
our corporate training?"

00:27:46.793 --> 00:27:48.342
Maybe there's a way to sustain ourselves.

00:27:48.342 --> 00:27:51.634
Maybe, and who knows? That's kind of

00:27:51.634 --> 00:27:53.581
an open question still, but the core to

00:27:53.581 --> 00:27:55.151
our mission is keeping our content

00:27:55.151 --> 00:27:58.042
that people get at
khanacademy.org completely free.

00:27:58.042 --> 00:28:00.052
Tom: It's obvious that
you have a knack for this.

00:28:00.052 --> 00:28:03.050
A lot of people, millions,
responding to it.

00:28:03.050 --> 00:28:04.875
What are the implications of that?

00:28:04.875 --> 00:28:06.087
That we-, what? Do we end up?

00:28:06.087 --> 00:28:07.544
I mean, Courtney, we didn't get to this,

00:28:07.544 --> 00:28:09.219
but she used your stuff in Africa,

00:28:09.219 --> 00:28:10.353
in Kenya last summer.

00:28:10.353 --> 00:28:13.116
Are we going to have 1
math teacher in America?

00:28:13.116 --> 00:28:14.972
1 math teacher in the world who happens

00:28:14.972 --> 00:28:16.892
to be good at getting the concepts across?

00:28:16.892 --> 00:28:19.094
What are the implications of that?

00:28:19.570 --> 00:28:23.351
Khan: What I suspect is
you'll have a handful

00:28:23.351 --> 00:28:27.644
of lecturers who make
these types of videos.

00:28:27.644 --> 00:28:29.064
It won't just be me.
In fact, we're already

00:28:29.064 --> 00:28:30.539
starting to talk to some other groups

00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:32.604
about making other videos and especially

00:28:32.604 --> 00:28:35.750
in topics that I'm not
competent to give lectures in,

00:28:35.750 --> 00:28:39.460
but what I think it does,
is it doesn't replace

00:28:39.460 --> 00:28:40.720
teachers, it actually lets them go

00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:41.552
up the value chain.

00:28:41.552 --> 00:28:42.705
I mean, you heard Courtney talk about

00:28:42.705 --> 00:28:44.119
how it's changed what
happens in the classroom.

00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:44.942
She can now intervene.

00:28:44.942 --> 00:28:48.187
She's actually using her, the fact

00:28:48.187 --> 00:28:49.573
that she's a human in a human way.

00:28:49.573 --> 00:28:51.303
She's not doing things like giving

00:28:51.303 --> 00:28:53.909
the same lecture every
year or every class period.

00:28:53.909 --> 00:28:58.911
And so, what I hope happens
is that what you see

00:28:58.911 --> 00:29:00.579
in classrooms is no longer lecture.

00:29:00.579 --> 00:29:01.992
What you see in classrooms is no longer

00:29:01.992 --> 00:29:03.839
kids just sitting passively.

00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.826
What you start seeing in
classrooms around the world

00:29:05.826 --> 00:29:07.449
is kids starting to
interact with each other,

00:29:07.449 --> 00:29:09.460
kids doing more projects, kids doing a lot

00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:11.255
of the higher order types of things that

00:29:11.255 --> 00:29:12.994
most teachers, I think, dream about.

00:29:12.994 --> 00:29:15.154
And before, they never
had the time to do it

00:29:15.154 --> 00:29:17.364
or a way to address it or a way to cater

00:29:17.364 --> 00:29:18.988
to every student in a meaningful way.

00:29:18.988 --> 00:29:19.710
(music)

00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:21.661
Tom: So, you give the kind of rudimentary

00:29:21.661 --> 00:29:23.161
material, even when it's-

00:29:23.161 --> 00:29:26.546
or the sort of base lecture
and they take it from there.

00:29:26.546 --> 00:29:27.942
Salman Khan, it is fascinating.

00:29:27.942 --> 00:29:30.076
Stand-by, if you would, in Palo Alto.

00:29:30.076 --> 00:29:31.161
We got to take a short break here.

00:29:31.161 --> 00:29:33.987
We're talking with the
now rock star famous,

00:29:33.987 --> 00:29:37.804
video math teacher and more,
Salman Khan of Khan Academy.

00:29:37.804 --> 00:29:38.944
Listeners, you can join us.

00:29:38.944 --> 00:29:40.620
Teachers, have you checked it out?

00:29:40.620 --> 00:29:43.058
Are you using Khan Academy
with your students?

00:29:43.058 --> 00:29:45.610
How's it going? Is this the magic bullet

00:29:45.610 --> 00:29:48.036
to get us back in the
game on math and science?

00:29:48.036 --> 00:29:52.072
800-423-8255, I'm Tom
Ashbrook. This is On Point.

00:29:52.072 --> 00:29:53.037
We'll be right back.

00:29:53.037 --> 00:29:55.259
(music)

00:29:58.890 --> 00:30:01.096
Tom: I'm Tom Ashbrook. This is On Point.

00:30:01.096 --> 00:30:02.951
We're talking this hour with Salman Khan,

00:30:02.951 --> 00:30:07.081
founder of Khan Academy,
and a one-man, kind of,

00:30:07.081 --> 00:30:09.659
education sensation these days.

00:30:09.659 --> 00:30:13.658
His, what now? Thousands of online videos

00:30:13.658 --> 00:30:16.412
on math and chemistry and now beyond.

00:30:16.412 --> 00:30:17.922
Napoleonic wars, history, you name it

00:30:17.922 --> 00:30:20.581
has kids, millions of them, eating up math

00:30:20.581 --> 00:30:23.575
and chemistry and learning online.

00:30:23.575 --> 00:30:26.165
It's being taken into
classrooms as a supplement

00:30:26.165 --> 00:30:28.302
to the teachers, sometimes
turning classrooms

00:30:28.302 --> 00:30:31.658
upside down, joins us today
from Palo Alto, California.

00:30:31.658 --> 00:30:32.950
You can join the conversation.

00:30:32.950 --> 00:30:36.550
Is this a piece of the answer to America's

00:30:36.550 --> 00:30:39.390
education challenge and
how will, or should this

00:30:39.390 --> 00:30:41.665
change the way we educate?

00:30:41.665 --> 00:30:46.605
800-423-8255 is our number, 800-423-TALK.

00:30:46.605 --> 00:30:48.164
Maxine, in Lancaster, Kentucky.

00:30:48.164 --> 00:30:49.951
You're on the air with Salman Khan.

00:30:51.627 --> 00:30:52.139
Maxine: Good morning.

00:30:52.139 --> 00:30:52.951
Tom: Hi.

00:30:53.643 --> 00:30:54.867
Khan: Good morning.

00:30:54.867 --> 00:30:56.518
Maxine: Yeah. (laughing) Sorry.

00:30:57.687 --> 00:30:59.500
Tom: Hi, Maxine. You're
on. What do you know?

00:31:00.468 --> 00:31:04.850
Maxine: Yes, I am an elementary teacher.

00:31:04.850 --> 00:31:07.450
I have a tutoring service now that I tutor

00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:09.999
kids that my heart goes out to.

00:31:09.999 --> 00:31:13.266
Those who are falling
between the floor planks

00:31:13.266 --> 00:31:15.155
of the public schools.

00:31:15.155 --> 00:31:17.705
One of my buried frustrations from when I

00:31:17.705 --> 00:31:19.428
was doing my student teaching was learning

00:31:19.428 --> 00:31:21.159
that it was all about the paperwork,

00:31:21.159 --> 00:31:25.949
which was back when, but I see today,

00:31:25.949 --> 00:31:31.250
such a necessary change
in how we, as teachers,

00:31:31.250 --> 00:31:33.250
are performing in the classroom

00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:35.453
and what really excited me about listening

00:31:35.453 --> 00:31:40.566
to your program and the Khan Academy

00:31:40.566 --> 00:31:43.285
is how it touches so
many different elements

00:31:43.285 --> 00:31:45.550
that are frustrating to the
teachers in the classroom

00:31:45.550 --> 00:31:48.788
where they're getting more paperwork

00:31:48.788 --> 00:31:51.759
of tracking kids rather than teaching kids

00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:54.613
which takes our time away from teaching

00:31:54.613 --> 00:31:57.551
and knowing what our
students are really doing

00:31:57.551 --> 00:32:01.110
and so this provides documenting
of what they are doing.

00:32:01.110 --> 00:32:03.651
It also, really addresses the fact that

00:32:03.651 --> 00:32:05.952
every child is an individual learner

00:32:05.952 --> 00:32:08.278
and they really need to
learn at their own pace,

00:32:08.278 --> 00:32:09.865
their own maturity level

00:32:09.865 --> 00:32:13.451
and how income in coming
in, so in tutoring

00:32:13.451 --> 00:32:16.062
I have a picture up of when I'm talking

00:32:16.062 --> 00:32:17.392
to the kids and their parents and helping

00:32:17.392 --> 00:32:19.178
them understand how important it is in

00:32:19.178 --> 00:32:22.350
the elementary level that
if they're sick one day

00:32:22.350 --> 00:32:26.042
and they miss that learning
lesson in math that day,

00:32:26.042 --> 00:32:28.383
how much it affects the whole foundation

00:32:28.383 --> 00:32:30.151
of building a house on math.

00:32:30.151 --> 00:32:33.164
Tom: Yeah. Miss one piece
and you're in trouble.

00:32:33.164 --> 00:32:34.652
Here you can go back and get it.

00:32:34.652 --> 00:32:36.154
Do you think this will
put you out of business

00:32:36.154 --> 00:32:37.960
with your tutoring service, Maxine?

00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.851
Maxine: No. I would totally use it and

00:32:40.851 --> 00:32:42.480
this reason I don't think we're going

00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:44.832
to lose our teachers
because we still need,

00:32:44.832 --> 00:32:50.952
in our humanity, is that real person there

00:32:50.952 --> 00:32:54.038
to help the student say, "Yes."

00:32:54.038 --> 00:32:57.293
It's wonderful and I have
not looked at your program

00:32:57.293 --> 00:33:02.150
but I know that just to have the awards

00:33:02.150 --> 00:33:04.682
and I love it! That it's not that you got

00:33:04.682 --> 00:33:06.766
the correct answer, it's the fact that you

00:33:06.766 --> 00:33:08.680
keep on persevering.

00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.320
When I was in college
I had a science class.

00:33:11.320 --> 00:33:13.290
It was on ecology and it
was one of the questions

00:33:13.290 --> 00:33:15.711
and we were on the
computer and the first time

00:33:15.711 --> 00:33:17.513
I did it I got the
answer wrong and it says,

00:33:17.513 --> 00:33:20.461
"Try again. Try again." The computer did

00:33:20.461 --> 00:33:22.920
because the teacher had
programmed that into it

00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.794
because it was like real daunting to me

00:33:25.794 --> 00:33:27.539
because I'm not a science person.

00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:28.215
Tom: Yep.

00:33:28.215 --> 00:33:30.407
Maxine: But then the next time, you know,

00:33:30.407 --> 00:33:31.998
I did it again and I got
it wrong and he says,

00:33:31.998 --> 00:33:34.551
"Try one more time for dear old mom."

00:33:34.551 --> 00:33:35.458
(laughing)

00:33:35.458 --> 00:33:37.741
And it had just stuck with
me my whole life going,

00:33:37.741 --> 00:33:40.543
"Yeah, you just keep
working at something."

00:33:40.543 --> 00:33:42.129
Tom: That little bit to
get you over the hump.

00:33:42.129 --> 00:33:45.298
Maxine, I appreciate
your call very much dear.

00:33:45.298 --> 00:33:46.351
Khan: I think we might incorporate

00:33:46.351 --> 00:33:47.751
the dear old mom idea.

00:33:47.751 --> 00:33:48.420
(laughing)

00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:50.545
Tom: One more time for dear old mom.

00:33:50.545 --> 00:33:52.251
You know, there have been so many people

00:33:52.251 --> 00:33:55.802
working on this digital
future for education, Salman.

00:33:55.802 --> 00:33:57.451
You know that. My friend, Art Bardage,

00:33:57.451 --> 00:33:59.392
with the Naval Learning at
Cambridge, Massachusetts

00:33:59.392 --> 00:34:00.552
doing great work on this.

00:34:00.552 --> 00:34:01.987
A big admirer of what you're doing.

00:34:01.987 --> 00:34:03.559
He says, "Your format
is perfect. Your timing

00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:06.542
is perfect." But his question to you and

00:34:06.542 --> 00:34:08.604
it's kind of implicit,
you get a call there

00:34:08.604 --> 00:34:12.968
from Kentucky or, you
know, not all schools

00:34:12.968 --> 00:34:14.939
have all this technology in them.

00:34:14.939 --> 00:34:19.115
In big urban areas, in
rural areas, not everybody

00:34:19.115 --> 00:34:20.799
has figured out how to use technology

00:34:20.799 --> 00:34:21.890
in the classroom yet.

00:34:21.890 --> 00:34:23.751
I mean, how do you envision the future

00:34:23.751 --> 00:34:27.440
of technology in the classroom.
What does it look like?

00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:28.468
What's your vision?

00:34:28.468 --> 00:34:31.974
Khan: Yeah, no. It's a
very legitimate point.

00:34:31.974 --> 00:34:33.842
I think what's happened and this is

00:34:33.842 --> 00:34:36.279
since I was a kid in the 80's, you know,

00:34:36.279 --> 00:34:38.973
we had computer labs then and even then

00:34:38.973 --> 00:34:40.477
they were completely
un-utilized because no one

00:34:40.477 --> 00:34:41.377
really knew what to do with them.

00:34:41.377 --> 00:34:42.855
We'd go in for like 20
minutes and they'd say,

00:34:42.855 --> 00:34:44.903
"Hey, put a diskette in
it. Okay, you've booted it,

00:34:44.903 --> 00:34:46.381
now go back to math class."
Or something like that.

00:34:46.381 --> 00:34:47.053
Tom: Right.

00:34:47.053 --> 00:34:49.210
Khan: And so, what we think is now

00:34:49.210 --> 00:34:52.144
we are getting a very tangible thing to do

00:34:52.144 --> 00:34:54.088
with the technology
and it's not technology

00:34:54.088 --> 00:34:55.669
for technology's sake.
It's about technology

00:34:55.669 --> 00:34:57.922
to enable humanity and
the rest of the curriculum

00:34:57.922 --> 00:35:01.415
and so, what we think is,
is that now this exists

00:35:01.415 --> 00:35:03.256
there's actually now a reason to do it

00:35:03.256 --> 00:35:06.184
and it's actually not
expensive when you compare it

00:35:06.184 --> 00:35:06.918
with other things.

00:35:06.918 --> 00:35:10.758
Right now you can get
a kind of a handheld PC

00:35:10.758 --> 00:35:13.163
for $200 that can last 4 years.

00:35:13.163 --> 00:35:17.122
That's $50 a year and it can be shared

00:35:17.122 --> 00:35:19.373
by multiple students, so
it actually goes down to

00:35:19.373 --> 00:35:22.472
only $10 or $20 per student per year,

00:35:22.472 --> 00:35:25.168
which is super cost
effective even compared

00:35:25.168 --> 00:35:28.663
to textbooks or, and
especially the $8000-$10,000

00:35:28.663 --> 00:35:30.372
a year that a lot of public school systems

00:35:30.372 --> 00:35:32.351
might spend on, per pupil.

00:35:32.351 --> 00:35:33.804
Tom: Well, take it from there though.

00:35:33.804 --> 00:35:35.652
Let's say, I don't know,
Bill Gates gives you

00:35:35.652 --> 00:35:38.351
$50 or $100 billion, you got all the money

00:35:38.351 --> 00:35:39.869
in the world to work on this and here's

00:35:39.869 --> 00:35:41.264
the American education system.

00:35:41.264 --> 00:35:43.514
Let's say you can get your
technology in everywhere.

00:35:43.514 --> 00:35:45.945
What is the actually education look like

00:35:45.945 --> 00:35:49.451
in a fully technology empowered American

00:35:49.451 --> 00:35:51.087
education system? What's it look like?

00:35:51.625 --> 00:35:53.403
Khan: I think what
you'll see and, you know,

00:35:53.403 --> 00:35:55.750
we want to see more and
more of this, is the school

00:35:55.750 --> 00:35:57.753
of the future is going to be, it's kind of

00:35:57.753 --> 00:36:00.257
going to revert back to
the one room school house

00:36:00.257 --> 00:36:01.904
where you have kids of all ages at all

00:36:01.904 --> 00:36:04.051
different skill levels.
They might not even be kids.

00:36:04.481 --> 00:36:06.500
Even college students,
they're all in that one room

00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:08.727
and they're all learning
at their own pace.

00:36:09.527 --> 00:36:11.843
It frees up time for them to do things

00:36:11.843 --> 00:36:14.020
that are actual expressions
of their creativity,

00:36:14.020 --> 00:36:16.713
so actually writing computer programs,

00:36:16.713 --> 00:36:19.339
building robots, composing
music, whatever it is.

00:36:19.985 --> 00:36:22.291
There's time freed up
to do that and they have

00:36:22.291 --> 00:36:24.950
mentors and teachers that
are constantly walking around

00:36:24.950 --> 00:36:27.643
and mentoring them in these projects

00:36:27.643 --> 00:36:29.601
and getting them past the hurdles the way

00:36:29.601 --> 00:36:31.223
that Courtney is doing in her class

00:36:31.223 --> 00:36:32.403
and I want to point on,
this is the interesting

00:36:32.403 --> 00:36:34.654
thing, there's no reason
why it's just the US.

00:36:34.654 --> 00:36:37.336
It's really a world wide phenomenon here.

00:36:37.336 --> 00:36:39.251
We're actually right now
translating the content

00:36:39.251 --> 00:36:42.409
into 10 languages and the idea is that

00:36:42.409 --> 00:36:44.492
we also want to eventually
localize the software

00:36:44.492 --> 00:36:46.758
so that a student anywhere can start to

00:36:46.758 --> 00:36:48.145
get a pretty good scaffold.

00:36:48.145 --> 00:36:49.855
And as important as a
self-paced learning is

00:36:49.855 --> 00:36:52.243
in the US and it's super important here,

00:36:52.243 --> 00:36:54.861
it's even more important
for a kid in India

00:36:54.861 --> 00:36:58.767
who has to work half the day or who has

00:36:58.767 --> 00:37:00.659
never learned to read or
has been out of school

00:37:00.659 --> 00:37:01.995
for 5 or 6 years.

00:37:01.995 --> 00:37:05.753
Tom: So tech powered, self-paced? Is that

00:37:05.753 --> 00:37:09.157
a systemic change that
can fix our problems?

00:37:09.157 --> 00:37:10.913
You've heard the news out today, you know,

00:37:10.913 --> 00:37:13.114
the new ACT scores for college admissions

00:37:13.114 --> 00:37:16.355
showing that just one
in 4 American graduates

00:37:16.355 --> 00:37:18.664
in the class of 2011 who
took the exam, met their

00:37:18.664 --> 00:37:22.327
4 key benchmarks. Can you put self-pacing

00:37:22.327 --> 00:37:25.894
and this kind of, you know,
series of tech lectures,

00:37:25.894 --> 00:37:27.651
technology in the classroom and fix that

00:37:27.651 --> 00:37:29.117
or does it take something else?

00:37:29.117 --> 00:37:30.024
Something more?

00:37:31.009 --> 00:37:33.114
Khan: It's an open
question. We'll find out.

00:37:33.114 --> 00:37:35.027
The unfortunate thing is
right now based on things

00:37:35.027 --> 00:37:37.914
like ACT scores or some
of these state exams

00:37:37.914 --> 00:37:40.552
to graduate, a lot of students,
I mean, if you just look

00:37:40.552 --> 00:37:42.085
at the stats of how many
students have to take

00:37:42.085 --> 00:37:44.754
remedial math or college algebra when

00:37:44.754 --> 00:37:47.246
they get to college,
if they even get there,

00:37:47.246 --> 00:37:51.250
it's a huge number. I
mean, it's a majority

00:37:51.250 --> 00:37:55.958
and it makes you think, well
what has happened to them

00:37:55.958 --> 00:37:57.366
over the course of their last 7, 8 years

00:37:57.366 --> 00:37:59.162
in high school and in
middle school and the

00:37:59.162 --> 00:38:01.742
answer isn't, it's actually not
a problem with the teachers,

00:38:01.742 --> 00:38:02.353
it's not a problem with the students.

00:38:02.353 --> 00:38:03.828
It's exactly what the
teacher from Kentucky

00:38:03.828 --> 00:38:06.257
was pointing out is
that, if you miss one day

00:38:06.257 --> 00:38:08.351
of school in third
grade or you don't learn

00:38:08.351 --> 00:38:10.826
your multiplication tables
properly or you don't

00:38:10.826 --> 00:38:13.498
100% master negative numbers, that's going

00:38:13.498 --> 00:38:15.012
to be a gap in your
foundation that's going

00:38:15.012 --> 00:38:16.902
to last with you your
lifetime and at some point

00:38:16.902 --> 00:38:19.351
that gap is going to
allow something to crumble

00:38:19.351 --> 00:38:20.947
when you get to algebra or calculus.

00:38:20.947 --> 00:38:23.075
And we're seeing that across the board.

00:38:23.075 --> 00:38:25.349
So, we hope that what we're doing here

00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:27.606
can really address that
and really allow people

00:38:27.606 --> 00:38:30.889
to go back and make sure
they have 100% foundation

00:38:30.889 --> 00:38:32.949
so that they can stay on a track.

00:38:33.518 --> 00:38:35.357
Tom: Wired Magazine
says you never intended

00:38:35.357 --> 00:38:37.989
to become an education revolutionary.

00:38:37.989 --> 00:38:40.396
Are you an education
revolutionary, Salman Khan?

00:38:40.612 --> 00:38:42.358
Khan: You know, we don't want to-

00:38:42.358 --> 00:38:44.361
The one thing that we shy away from

00:38:44.361 --> 00:38:47.251
is trying to make more
of it than what it is.

00:38:47.251 --> 00:38:49.549
We hope it can be as much as possible, but

00:38:49.549 --> 00:38:52.455
our focus on our team,
we generally just want

00:38:52.455 --> 00:38:54.967
to keep building stuff,
seeing how it works,

00:38:54.967 --> 00:38:57.695
looking at the data,
getting feedback from users

00:38:57.695 --> 00:38:59.335
and making it better and
better, and exploring

00:38:59.335 --> 00:39:02.131
where it can be used and really avoid

00:39:02.131 --> 00:39:04.445
getting into, kind of, the more
political debates about it.

00:39:04.445 --> 00:39:05.627
Tom: Well, I don't know if you're going to

00:39:05.627 --> 00:39:07.632
be able to avoid that in
the world of education.

00:39:07.632 --> 00:39:08.863
Khan: (laughing) That's what I'm thinking.

00:39:08.863 --> 00:39:10.832
Tom: You're making a pretty
good whack at it so far

00:39:10.832 --> 00:39:12.604
and it's been great to
have you with us today.

00:39:12.604 --> 00:39:15.855
Salman Khan, he's produced
more than 2400 videos

00:39:15.855 --> 00:39:18.691
on topics from math and
chemistry to history.

00:39:18.691 --> 00:39:20.857
You can find a selection of those videos

00:39:20.857 --> 00:39:24.052
at our website, onpointradio.org.

00:39:24.052 --> 00:39:27.047
Founder and executive
director of Khan Academy.

00:39:27.047 --> 00:39:29.610
Salman Khan in Palo
Alto, thank you very much

00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:31.745
for being with us today.
Great talking with you.

00:39:32.068 --> 00:39:33.122
Khan: Thanks for having me, Tom.

00:39:33.276 --> 00:39:33.827
(music)

00:39:33.827 --> 00:39:35.856
Tom: In a moment, a free online class

00:39:35.856 --> 00:39:38.600
in the basics of artificial intelligence.

00:39:38.769 --> 00:39:40.136
This is On Point.

00:39:40.536 --> 00:39:42.730
(music)

00:40:00.734 --> 00:40:02.308
Tom: When Stanford University announced

00:40:02.308 --> 00:40:05.511
a free online class this fall
in artificial intelligence,

00:40:05.511 --> 00:40:10.421
word got around. Now,
more than 58,000 students

00:40:10.421 --> 00:40:13.051
from around the globe have
signed up to take the class

00:40:13.051 --> 00:40:15.949
taught by 2 leading experts
from Silicon Valley.

00:40:15.949 --> 00:40:18.832
Students won't get credit,
but they will be taught

00:40:18.832 --> 00:40:22.346
by 2 of Google's stars
and leading AI experts,

00:40:22.346 --> 00:40:25.751
Sebastian Thrun and Stanford Peter Norvig.

00:40:25.751 --> 00:40:27.774
Joining me now from
Mountain View, California

00:40:27.774 --> 00:40:30.611
is Peter Norvig, director
of research at Google,

00:40:30.611 --> 00:40:35.754
who with Stanford research professor,

00:40:35.754 --> 00:40:38.139
Sebastian Thrun is teaching Introduction

00:40:38.139 --> 00:40:40.778
of Artificial Intelligence
at Stanford this fall.

00:40:40.778 --> 00:40:42.860
Peter Norvig, welcome to On Point.

00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:44.042
Thanks very much for being with us.

00:40:44.442 --> 00:40:45.604
Peter: Hi, Tom. Great to be here.

00:40:45.820 --> 00:40:49.059
Tom: So, what exactly is
the course going to cover?

00:40:49.059 --> 00:40:52.487
What's the range here? Is it
an introductory course in AI?

00:40:52.487 --> 00:40:54.858
Peter: It's the introductory course

00:40:54.858 --> 00:40:56.137
in Artificial Intelligence.

00:40:56.137 --> 00:40:59.076
The standard course is taught at Stanford

00:40:59.076 --> 00:41:02.910
and it does require
prerequisites in mathematics

00:41:02.910 --> 00:41:05.754
and programming, so
it's not an introductory

00:41:05.754 --> 00:41:08.738
course for anyone, but
for somebody who has

00:41:08.738 --> 00:41:10.071
that kind of background.

00:41:10.071 --> 00:41:11.651
Tom: So, how do you determine who has

00:41:11.651 --> 00:41:15.074
the prerequisite background to show up

00:41:15.074 --> 00:41:18.352
and take, very remotely,
your free online course.

00:41:18.352 --> 00:41:20.991
Peter: Well, we've offered it for anybody

00:41:20.991 --> 00:41:23.215
to sign up and we've made clear of what

00:41:23.215 --> 00:41:24.984
the syllabus is, what we're going to cover

00:41:24.984 --> 00:41:28.255
and tried to describe what's required,

00:41:28.255 --> 00:41:32.045
what background is required and then it's

00:41:32.045 --> 00:41:34.076
up to the students to do their work.

00:41:34.076 --> 00:41:36.951
We wanted to make the course, such that,

00:41:36.951 --> 00:41:41.827
it's as similar as we can
make it to a live course

00:41:41.827 --> 00:41:46.727
taught on campus. There's
lots of materials online.

00:41:46.727 --> 00:41:49.152
You know, I've heard
about Sal. I've talked

00:41:49.152 --> 00:41:52.651
with Sal before and he's
one of the inspirations

00:41:52.651 --> 00:41:53.751
for what we've done.

00:41:54.858 --> 00:41:59.056
But he has an approach
where it's up to the student

00:41:59.056 --> 00:42:01.840
to do their work or it's
supplemental to a course.

00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.450
We wanted to see, can we
provide the experience

00:42:04.450 --> 00:42:06.851
of a real course online
where homework's due

00:42:06.851 --> 00:42:09.568
every week, so the students
will quickly find out

00:42:09.568 --> 00:42:12.897
can they do the homework or not and

00:42:12.897 --> 00:42:14.187
we'll expect them to keep up.

00:42:14.356 --> 00:42:15.882
Tom: So, that raises
a couple of questions,

00:42:15.882 --> 00:42:17.679
but the first one is, just this 58,000

00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:19.741
and maybe it's more than
that by now, but this ...

00:42:19.741 --> 00:42:22.129
Peter: Yeah, but we're
just about at 85,000 now.

00:42:22.129 --> 00:42:25.951
Tom: 85,000? Did you have any expectation

00:42:25.951 --> 00:42:28.782
when you stepped up to offer this course,

00:42:28.782 --> 00:42:30.251
Peter Norvig, that you would attract

00:42:30.251 --> 00:42:31.465
that kind of audience?

00:42:31.465 --> 00:42:34.651
Peter: No, but Sebastian
and I thought about this.

00:42:34.651 --> 00:42:38.382
We thought, we taught the
course at Stanford before,

00:42:38.382 --> 00:42:41.751
just for Stanford students and we said,

00:42:41.751 --> 00:42:43.915
"We want to open it up. We
want to do this experiment

00:42:43.915 --> 00:42:47.142
to see if we can reach
more people in the world."

00:42:47.142 --> 00:42:49.976
And Sebastian said, "We
could reach 10,000 people."

00:42:49.976 --> 00:42:52.150
And I thought he was exaggerating, but

00:42:52.150 --> 00:42:53.851
we'll definitely get a couple thousand.

00:42:53.851 --> 00:42:55.851
We had no idea that we were
going to get this many.

00:42:55.851 --> 00:42:59.810
Now, so far we only have
their email addresses,

00:42:59.810 --> 00:43:02.153
so that's not a work to ask out of them.

00:43:02.153 --> 00:43:02.816
Tom: Right.

00:43:02.816 --> 00:43:04.460
Peter: So, when they start having to do

00:43:04.460 --> 00:43:07.252
the actual homework, we
expect some of them will drop.

00:43:07.252 --> 00:43:09.931
Tom: Interest from 175
countries around the world,

00:43:09.931 --> 00:43:12.351
85,000 now signed up.
What do you make of that?

00:43:12.351 --> 00:43:15.949
How do you interpret that,
what seems like enormous

00:43:15.949 --> 00:43:18.213
amount of interest and people, as you say,

00:43:18.213 --> 00:43:19.619
you'll see what happens, but so far,

00:43:19.619 --> 00:43:21.020
willing to put their hand up and say,

00:43:21.020 --> 00:43:23.344
"I want to study artificial
intelligence with

00:43:23.344 --> 00:43:25.042
you guys maybe thousands of miles away

00:43:25.042 --> 00:43:26.454
at Stanford University."

00:43:27.054 --> 00:43:28.841
Peter: Yeah, it's a tremendous response.

00:43:30.348 --> 00:43:32.267
I think it just shows that
there's lot of interest

00:43:32.267 --> 00:43:35.445
out there that people want to have access

00:43:35.445 --> 00:43:37.751
to this type of material.
They want to learn.

00:43:37.751 --> 00:43:41.008
They think this is an interesting topic,

00:43:41.008 --> 00:43:42.986
interesting set of teachers, maybe?

00:43:44.402 --> 00:43:46.338
And Stanford is a well-known university

00:43:46.338 --> 00:43:49.850
and bringing all those
things together and making

00:43:49.850 --> 00:43:53.852
them available for free in a real course

00:43:53.852 --> 00:43:57.150
where you can be evaluated,
it's just something

00:43:57.150 --> 00:43:58.489
that's a little bit novel.

00:43:58.827 --> 00:44:01.252
Lot's of people have done similar types

00:44:01.252 --> 00:44:03.568
of approaches before, but
we've put all the pieces

00:44:03.568 --> 00:44:05.346
together in just a slightly different way.

00:44:05.346 --> 00:44:07.252
Tom: And you talk about a small world.

00:44:07.252 --> 00:44:09.566
Here, you're out, presumably as director

00:44:09.566 --> 00:44:11.436
of research at Google,
former NASA scientist.

00:44:11.436 --> 00:44:12.958
You're out on the cutting edge of AI.

00:44:12.958 --> 00:44:15.169
You're going to be
instructing people literally

00:44:15.169 --> 00:44:17.197
from around the world.

00:44:17.197 --> 00:44:20.248
I'm trying to take on
board what this trend

00:44:20.248 --> 00:44:23.527
that you're part of, means
about global understanding

00:44:23.527 --> 00:44:27.136
at the cutting edge of high science?

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:31.170
Does this speed the
creation of a real, sort of,

00:44:31.170 --> 00:44:34.189
homogeneous global community
of scientific insight.

00:44:34.189 --> 00:44:36.257
Peter: I hope so. That's
what we're trying to do.

00:44:36.257 --> 00:44:38.152
You know, we're trying to make it easier

00:44:38.152 --> 00:44:41.445
for more people to get access to this type

00:44:41.445 --> 00:44:44.545
of information, so you
don't have to get a PhD

00:44:44.545 --> 00:44:47.751
to study AI, you can
try it out in a format

00:44:47.751 --> 00:44:51.727
that's easier and see if
it makes sense for you.

00:44:51.727 --> 00:44:54.539
Tom: Who is AI useful too?

00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:56.111
Do you have to be an
engineer in a high tech

00:44:56.111 --> 00:44:58.243
company for this to be useful?

00:44:58.243 --> 00:45:00.655
What's the range of profiles of people

00:45:00.655 --> 00:45:03.150
for whom you think this might be valuable?

00:45:05.409 --> 00:45:08.831
Peter: I guess, to
apply all the techniques

00:45:08.831 --> 00:45:11.150
to make more sense to be in some type

00:45:11.150 --> 00:45:14.471
of a company. I think that it's broader

00:45:14.471 --> 00:45:17.040
than just the computer
industry so you're seeing

00:45:17.040 --> 00:45:22.058
applications in biology,
in finance, sort of

00:45:22.058 --> 00:45:25.958
across the board in any type of profession

00:45:25.958 --> 00:45:29.050
that's dealing with interpreting data,

00:45:29.050 --> 00:45:32.843
interpreting uncertainty,
these techniques are useful.

00:45:32.843 --> 00:45:36.100
Tom: And does Google, you're
a director of research

00:45:36.100 --> 00:45:37.659
there, do they have
any concern that you're

00:45:37.659 --> 00:45:39.455
giving away the store to the world?

00:45:40.055 --> 00:45:42.845
Peter: No, Google's been
extremely supportive.

00:45:42.845 --> 00:45:45.385
It's always been our mission to provide

00:45:45.385 --> 00:45:48.544
accessed information and
this is just one more

00:45:48.544 --> 00:45:51.551
way to do it and they're behind it 100%.

00:45:51.551 --> 00:45:54.052
Tom: Okay, we've got a lot
of listeners right now.

00:45:54.052 --> 00:45:56.350
What's a, or the, key
insight that you hope

00:45:56.350 --> 00:46:00.165
people come away from
a semester of AI with?

00:46:00.165 --> 00:46:02.279
A, sort of, is there some
fundamental orientation

00:46:02.279 --> 00:46:04.471
toward artificial
intelligence or fundamental

00:46:04.471 --> 00:46:06.267
piece of understanding
you hope people get?

00:46:07.128 --> 00:46:10.700
Peter: I guess, to try to demystify it,

00:46:10.700 --> 00:46:14.496
so people have visions of robots

00:46:14.496 --> 00:46:17.780
from science fiction stories without quite

00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:20.647
understanding how they
got there, so we want

00:46:20.647 --> 00:46:26.082
to show that by analyzing,
using mathematical

00:46:26.082 --> 00:46:27.951
techniques, using programming techniques

00:46:27.951 --> 00:46:30.146
that you could understand what it is that

00:46:30.146 --> 00:46:33.166
a robot could do or not do, understand

00:46:33.166 --> 00:46:36.851
how to interpret data in the
world and make sense of it.

00:46:36.851 --> 00:46:40.466
Tom: And will computer's
intelligence outpace

00:46:40.466 --> 00:46:42.751
our own? Has it already
when you add it all up?

00:46:43.489 --> 00:46:46.251
Peter: I don't really think
about it as outpacing.

00:46:46.251 --> 00:46:48.636
I think of it as augmenting.

00:46:49.328 --> 00:46:53.048
So, there's already
places where a computer

00:46:53.048 --> 00:46:55.352
outpaces us. My computer is much better

00:46:55.352 --> 00:46:58.748
at multiplying 10 digit numbers than I am

00:46:58.748 --> 00:47:01.751
and there's places where people are better

00:47:01.751 --> 00:47:03.978
than computers, so I think
how can we work together?

00:47:04.163 --> 00:47:06.498
Tom: Peter Norvig, director
of research at Google,

00:47:06.498 --> 00:47:08.533
guest lecturer at Stanford University.

00:47:08.533 --> 00:47:10.351
He'll be teaching with Sebastian Thrun,

00:47:10.351 --> 00:47:13.158
a free online course in
artificial intelligence

00:47:13.158 --> 00:47:17.250
this fall 85,000 people
already signed up for that

00:47:17.250 --> 00:47:19.200
from right around the world.

00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:21.035
Peter Norvig in Mountain View, California.

00:47:21.035 --> 00:47:22.708
Thank you very much for
being with us today.

00:47:22.708 --> 00:47:23.592
Peter: Thanks, Tom.

00:47:23.592 --> 00:47:24.804
Tom: Listeners, thanks for joining us.

00:47:24.804 --> 00:47:27.320
I'm Tom Ashbrook. This is On Point.

00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:29.585
(music)

00:47:39.742 --> 00:47:42.769
Voiceover: On Point is a
production of WBUR-Boston

00:47:42.769 --> 00:47:44.881
and NPR.