Recommendation to Consider Adoption of a City Council Code of Conduct and Councilmember Handbook, and Code of Conduct, Providing Guidelines for Councilmembers to Follow in Conducting City Business and Fulfilling Their Responsibilities as City Elected Officials. (City Manager/City Attorney)
and direction on how you want this policy to be be used. Moving forward, the background, just to remind everyone the background on this policy proposal is on June 11th, 2019, the Alameda County grand jury recommended that the city more formally establish a council member Code of Conduct Handbook. That is what's before you tonight is a draft code. A Code of Conduct Handbook. On July 16, 2019, the Council agreed with this recommendation and directed staff to return with a Code of Conduct Handbook. The draft is before you tonight and following the Council's direction on July 16th, the city manager's office and City Attorney's Office have been collaborating on consolidating existing city policies and reviewing best practices from other jurisdictions in order to create a Code of Conduct Handbook. And here in the draft that best suits Alameda. The the draft city council handbook in front of you includes the following. The principle areas addressed by the proposed handbook include City Governance, City Council meetings, agenda setting, staff attendance and participation at Council Meetings, public participation at Council meetings, meeting minute in Council Communications with staff and with the public. With that, I want to hit on one highlight. A couple of questions have come up in particular regarding Section e, general Council Communications Policy, in particular with city staff and responding to public. That was just a concept. It was towards the bottom of that particular policy, a concept. It was not meant to be an etched in stone way of communicating with the public by council, but more one strategy that could be used to make sure that there's consistency and in communicating with the public and to make sure that the public communicate with on different, different items. But we are open to a variety of different approaches there. Also, I have sent out based on some impressions with the Sunnyvale policy, the Sunnyvale policy, which I think has some excellent points to it. And so that might be an alternative in looking at policies moving forward with that and over the presentation to even to finish it up. Mr. CHEN. Yes. Thank you very much. I agree with the city manager that we worked on our offices, worked on this policy together to give at least the beginning roadmap for conversation. And we were very much looking for your feedback on any number of fronts. I want to touch a little bit up on one of the alternatives that's in the staff report is that part of the main recommendation, which is the social media policy and this in particular, we put it in the alternative because it really is one that we want to trigger conversation versus having something that's ready for necessarily ready for complete adoption. And we want to get the council's thinking just because there's a range of options available to the council from adopting nothing to adopting a very, you know, a policy that creates a number of limitations. You know, in today's world, the councils and boards and commission members from time to time post social media, that's what happens throughout the state and in fact throughout the country. That happens all the time. And without a policy, the what governs essentially this the Brown Act. The Brown Act basically provides that council members and boards and commission members cannot create a collective consensus outside of a notice public meeting. And so with no policy in place, that is the guiding principle. The concern that could occur is that it leaves a lot of self-regulating to boards and commissions and council members. And one example that was given is that let's say there is a post on a social media page and there is, you know, a thousand comments council members will have to or boards and commission members, if it's within their jurisdiction, will have to look through them to determine how many have posted to make a decision whether or not they violate or not. The Brown Act by posting or not posting. It's something that occurs today and the lack of a policy doesn't change that status quo. With that said, the council has a number of options available to you tonight. You could continue with the existing practice, which is simply comply with the Brown Act and do nothing else. The Council could decide to adopt a policy that only applies either. Or to itself or to boards and commissions or both. The council could decide to make the policy simply a recommendation versus direction. You could take the position that it is recommended, for example, that, you know, members, whether council members or commission members, you know, engage in the practice of not posting if it's something that's coming before you instead of making it a clear direction. And so that softens the policy and gives more discretion. A direction is obviously a more hard and fast rule. So there's a range of discretions there. You also have a range of discretion if you wish to have a policy at all, to think about what are the limitations that you want to impose, a clear limitation you could impose as to say and this is all assuming you want a policy at all, is that you want to limit posting only when there's an item pending or agenda before your body. And so that means if it's not agenda's then not pending, then there's no governing policy and members revert to just general compliance with the Brown Act. You may choose to go a step further, as some jurisdictions have done, and make a determination that in addition to pending an agenda size, you want to limit it to items that a member knows or reasonably should know would come before that body. That's a difficult determination to make for members. You may or may not want that to be a limiting factor, and if you do, you may even want to limited to a discrete time period, because over time almost everything will come before the body. And you may want to say, well, we would you know, we like that limitation, but we wanted to limit it to the next 60 days or 30 days or some concrete timeframe. And so these are the range of options available to you, which is that, you know, not adopting a social policy, social media policy at all, to having a recommended policy to a policy that provides direction and to decide, you know, and if you chose to do any of it, to decide whether or not you want to cover only currently pending agenda items or to reach out a little further. With that, we're very happy to take your questions. And we have no public speakers on this item. Okay. So I'm just going to jump in quickly to say I read through the draft proposal, the hand, the handbook and code of conduct and the social media policy and all that. But then I saw the city manager's email with a link to the Sunnyvale Handbook, and I really like that. And I, because I made a lot of notes when I was going through the proposed policy, I thought some of the language was a bit antiquated and maybe could be, you know, stated a little differently. And then I went to Sunnyvale and it just seemed like it was kind of up to date and they thought it through. So and I'm actually was just looking it up because I don't remember now, did they do it? Do they do a social media policy? They're in the backyard of Facebook and all those places. So anyway, that I just I think whatever we do, whatever we decide to adopt, assuming we do, should be as simple and straightforward. And we and I will say that the policy that staff came up with, I mean, it certainly referenced its various citations of where certain policies were found. But I don't know, I just like Sunnyvale is kind of plain spoken, common sense language. So with that, I'd like to hear from my colleagues. Am I right? Councilmember Odie. Sure. I'll chime in. So I usually look at the agenda with a cursory review and then after I let it percolate, I look at it in more detail. So in between those two days, we received that email from League of Cities and that's where are and I saw at the bottom it was adopting a code of conduct . So I was like, Sounds interesting. I'll click on it. And sure enough, there was the article that popped up, I think it was from Western Cities magazine and it talked about, you know, how councils should you know, this is basically our rules and how we want to work together. Work together with the public, work together with the people we serve, work together with our staff, and, you know, talk about how it's good to have a workshop to develop these type of codes of conduct. And, you know, then there was I couldn't find them just now, but there were links. And then Sunnyvale was one of the links and then the others. And I thought it was a very comprehensive code of conduct. I mean, we have a, you know, ignoring how we got here. This is a great opportunity, I think, for us to kind of show people, you know, what we stand for, what our ethics are and what our values are. And, you know, I think what you guys put forth was a good start. But, you know, I think with some input from the council and if, you know, I like city mayors a lot, I mean, it covered things that were missing, you know, like boards and commissions and our interactions and the mayor being the point of contact for press because, you know, that's what our charter says, that he or she is the is the official head of the city. So I think I mean, I could go into more detail if if we're going to have a more detailed discussion. But I thought there were a lot of things that that covered, you know, like there are some elected officials that weren't covered by the proposed policy. And I think all elected officials should be covered by by this policy. And I don't even know if it's something we could require. As you sign, I guess you you can sign it when you take an oath, but, you know, sign it to file. I don't know if that's something we could add as a as a requirement, but, you know, it would be something that I mean, at the end of it, there was that thing you signed about your, you know, what you were going to promise to do. And I. I can't say I have any complaints about this council, but I think in the past those type of rules and somebody was signing it or not signing it would have made my first term a lot more comfortable. So not so sure. So, again, if we want to give more direction to go back and draft, I mean, I'm happy to have that discussion. But, you know, at a high level, that's my initial reaction on the social media. Wow. That was interesting. I mean, the first thing I did was Google and see Brownback's social media and it sounds like it's covered. So I'm just curious, see what everyone else thinks before I chime in on that one, because I could see where, you know, the mayor and I may have a discussion on something and we've picked each other, has a Brownback person, and then we read Councilmember de Saag feels that way on social media. And then all of a sudden, you know, we know how three people think and maybe, you know, I don't know. Do we not read it? Just it's just very interesting. So I want to hear what others have to say. I just use that as a hypothetical. You weren't driving the chief's car. Or anyone's package. Okay, thank you. Can somebody who's next? Councilmember Vela. Um, so I like Sonny Vaile's code of ethics and conduct. I like that it includes. One change that I would like to have is that it says that it's for the members of the city council and the city's boards and commissions. We have more than just the city council's elected officials. So I just want to make sure that whatever handbook we pass is for all elected and appointed officials in the city of Alameda, and that would include our city auditor and city treasurer. I think that we should all be held to the exact same standard when it comes to code of conduct and ethics. And I think just keeping it general to all elected and appointed officials will have us covered in the event that there's any changes in our charter moving forward. So another thing is, I think that we've had a lot of presentations recently and a lot of laws on kind of safe workplace environments, workplace harassment, that sort of thing. I like that. The Sunnyvale policy includes elected and appointed official interaction with staff. I think that this is something that we can do to bolster the classes and the training that we've had surrounding safe work environments. I think that our staff are working with not just the council but with all of our boards and commissions. I think sometimes there can be differing opinions. What I really like about this Sunnyvale handbook is that it's really about providing a safe place for dialog so that people can have an open conversation but done in a respectful manner. I think that's really the heart of what they're trying to get at, and I want to make sure that that's something that we we strive for and protect, because I think it's very important. I think sometimes in the heat of advocacy, sometimes that can be lost. And I want to make sure that our staff are also understand that and our boards and commission members understand that they're to behave appropriately with staff as well. And those interactions. The other thing that and I don't know if it would belong in the handbook or somewhere else, but I know we lack a fraternization policy as a city. I know that we have kind of we generally adhere to sexual harassment in the workplace policies, but I don't think we have a fraternization policy or a policy on a situation where, you know, there could be a previous relationship and how that could impact people that move department to department or up for promotions, that sort of thing. And that was something that I think is is lacking. Or also, if there's a Border Commission member that I just I want to make sure that when we're doing this, that would be something that we also look to include perhaps in this. And I did speak with a council member from the city of Sunnyvale, and she informed me that that they adopt this it's on their consent every single year. So it's not just when there's a new council, it's every single year and they do it on their consent calendar. And they also let all of their board and commission members know that it's on the agenda. And if especially if there's any changes and they do try to update it regularly to comply with law. And so I think those are things that this is a living document. That we may need to adopt and amend over time. And so, yeah. And then I saw the vice spirited. So I want to thank staff for for four for all of their work I think. Yeah I two when you sent the Senate fail example it answered some questions because I think we have two different handbooks and the Senate bill is much more about kind of ethics and behavior in the the, the, the, the original one was a little bit more of how we run the city and whatnot. I think that there are a couple of things that I that we might they don't really believe belong in the code of ethics and conduct. But I think that there are some longstanding issues and questions that have come up over and over again related to agenda setting and some things like that that were in the Alameda version that may not belong in the Sunnyvale version, but we should find a place to clarify that because since I was on the Transportation Commission in 2001 to that issue of is it the chair of the board and the commission or the staff or is it the council? And, you know, who who who is the final decider? I think it just could use that clarification. Other than that, I would be ready to, you know, with staff's input, but adopt something almost word for word in the Sunnyvale one with with Councilmember Vela's expansion to yes all elected officials that we can cover on the social media policy. You know I like the idea of having something in the in the in the book that basically reminds everyone of the Brown Act potential violations. It's not a Brown Act violation of you and Councilmember Vela. Do talk and then you read something. Tony has Tony could write to the paper and talk to all you know and all of us can read it. That's not a Brown Act violation. It's when you're engaging in actual conversation. So if you if all three of you ended up in the same thread, that's where it gets dicey. Just I just want to clarify. Clarify? Yeah, I. I'm sorry. I'm an American. I may I? Okay. Your Councilor Brody Green ification. The thing that struck me was reading articles like if three people press like then that's kind of an expression of, of support. So that's where I got. Wow. So I don't know. No, no, no. I suppose emerges. I will say the clicking like one was the one that jumped out at me like you know, because I'm like they just click like to say thank you, right etc.. So I will definitely in the future be more careful about that because I do not look at who's like everything, you know, especially in there, 65 people. I'm not going to scroll through that, but I do think that we can trust each other also, or we should start off by trusting each other to look through the comments before we join. There was a conversation the end of last week that I went and I'm like, Oh, I had something I was going to say. And then I quickly went through and there was the mayor commenting and there was Councilmember Vela comedy. And so I stepped back, you know, and I wasn't thinking Brown act at that point. I just thought like, I don't need to add my voice as well. It's, it's, it's but, you know, rather than I, I also I talked with staff earlier. I would be a little nervous as a saying. We can't comment on social media because I don't think it should be required. The people comment. But I will tell you that I think if this if everybody on the dais goes silent on social media, what's the impact in the community is going to be? They don't respond. They aren't, you know, because because at some point or another, all of us have commented on something that that was important to them. And they wanted to know that people were thinking about it and whatever else. And so I think we just need to I think it would be good to have something that reminds us and, you know, adopted every year. But that that that we should be very mindful of not having three people in the same thread. But I would be a little leery of, of voting to outright say no social media commenting at all. And I think we should also, you know, we're all grown adults, I think is becoming a problem. We should we should then at our next not tomorrow, but at our next workshop, we can maybe set aside 45 minutes to talk about it. Before I go to Councilmember decided you want to say something else? Councilmember Vela Yeah, I just on the social media policy, I think sometimes also we click like just to say we hear you like we've we've heard you. Thank you for voicing this. We'll we'll do something about it. I think what we all need to be careful. I know we all want to be responsive and it's difficult. I, I think my my fear is also that we we censor ourselves too much, which I think is what the vice mayor's fear is, where we are no longer being responsive or engaging in a dialog on something that is not actually a matter coming before the council and therefore in Brown Act issue. Thank you Councilmember so. Well thank you. I think the reason why we're having this discussion about the code of conduct really boils down to the part of the draft that has to do with section policy implementing charter review Section seven dash the. Which among other things, has to do with inquiries made by council members of the city manager of administrative tasks. But it also has to do in the last sentence of seven das three. It also has to do with prohibitions on council members in in involving themselves. And this is we have to understand this specific word involving themselves in the appointment of persons to particular jobs within City Hall. So in my opinion, whatever code of conduct that we have, it needs to speak to that particular the last aspect of 7-3, because there really are two or maybe even three elements to seven, dash three one, as I had indicated. First has to do with any queries made about, you know, made of administrative duties that are rightfully belonging to the city manager. But the second part has to do with the appointment intervening or involving themselves in the appointment of individuals with regard to the code of conduct and the appointment of individuals by the city manager and the possible intervention of city council members in that job appointing process. The one thing that I would recommend is that that council members, in no specific instance, never look at council members, never specifically, uh, inquire about or specifically advocate for particularly particular individuals or sets of individuals or particular who are named. They can talk about, inquire about jobs and the type of characteristic the city manager is interested in or the type of characteristics that they are interested in seeing. But as a code of conduct, I believe we need to speak to the prohibition on pursuing, and it can enable even the phrase, the word inquiring can even apply here inquiring about particularly named individuals or even sets of individuals for appointments. And remember that 7-3 isn't is when it comes to the job. It's about appointments of individuals to positions. And I think I need to say that because it's altogether possible that council members might be concerned about a current department head and might want to raise some questions in their private one on ones with a city manager about the the performance of of department heads. That is not an instance of a council member involving herself or himself in the appointment process. The appointment process, in my mind, refers to when there is a position open and the prohibition when it comes to the conduct should simply be a sentence or two that prohibits the inquiring about or any kind of verb about specific named individuals or sets of individuals for appointments to city positions. Thank you. So I'm just going back to the executive summary of this staff report that reminds us why we have this item before us to begin with. And it says that the city council agreeing with recommendations from the Alameda. I think that's Alameda County civil grand jury directed staff to return with a draft council member code of conduct slash handbook in order to provide additional guidance for Council members in the conduct of the city's business in fulfilling the duties of their public office. And that's what we have before us to consider. I also agree with Councilmember Odie, who said I believe when he started his comments that regardless of how we got here, this is a great opportunity and I happen to agree with that. I think that this current council and all future councils are only better equipped, better prepared to do this job by having a clear set of guidelines. And and the clearer and the more readable, the better. I also agree, though, with the vice mayor that the Sunnyvale handbook, I think is great, but it also lacks some of the specific references to our charter and things that I think are important. And so I would hope that when we send this back to staff for further work, that we can meld the Sunnyvale Guidelines Handbook with the with some of the pertinent parts of the proposal that. The. City our city staff came up with. I also. O The one thing you can omit from the Sunnyvale Handbook are the quotes. I do not know why and who. Maybe the city librarian or something chose those. But no, let's just, you know, stick to the basics. The social media policy. I do think something needs to be said. I mean, we can't pretend that we aren't here in almost 2020. And there just are some things I don't you know, we we have First Amendment rights, but we also have responsibilities to adhere to the Brown Act. So good to have those reminders. And I think as as Councilmember Otis said, this is is a great opportunity. And it also just clarifies what we're doing. I mean, this really is a noble endeavor and it should be treated as such. And I also think it's it's exceptionally important in today's world, especially in our country, looking to Washington, D.C., I think we can show that at the local level, we can communicate with civility and respect. We don't all agree all the time, but we can still have a good, productive discussion. And so sometimes we need to be reminded of that. And I think, you know, we've got some really good material to work with here. So, Councilor, ready? So your hand up. Go ahead. Yeah, I just wanted to add. Whoops, I just flipped over. I mean, if you look at the Sunnyvale, I mean, it devotes like two pages to an analysis of member questions, inquiries to staff. So I think there's a a good base there to address a lot of the concerns my colleague brought up. And, you know, there's actually a set in a paragraph which I think could be expanded on based on some things that are specific to Alameda, but do not get involved in administrative functions. And it spells out elected and appointed officials must not attempt to influence city staff on the making of appointments, awarding of contracts, seeking of consultants or selecting of consultants, processing of development applications, or granting city licenses or permits. And again, that that's probably a good start. I mean, if it needs to be expanded on, you know, I think we should we should expand on it. But, you know, it's a good start. The topic that came out that did concern me when I did read, uh, the original draft is, you know, I think there needs to be some guidance around what is allowed and not allowed as far as people that aren't are our direct reports because I really don't want to get in the business of disciplining or evaluating anybody. That's not our director party. So I don't know what the answer is. So I'm counting on on our staff to kind of bring that back. It's a fine line between saying, you know, I wish somebody had done this better versus saying, you know, something that councilmember days have brought up. I mean, I'm not sure that's appropriate thing for for a council member to get involved in. You know, maybe I'm wrong and maybe people disagree with me. But, you know, to me, it should be limited to boom, boom, boom. Right. One, two, three. Referencing our direct. Reports. Right. Yeah. Sorry. The question. Is my night, deposition, desire. Nonverbal communication. So, I mean, so basically that's why I like this because instead of, you know, a sentence in a charter, it's two pages of analysis on what an inquiry is. And if we want to expand on that, I'm sure there are other other charters or other codes that have that. But, you know, that's what I like about it because it was pretty clear and. Okay, yeah, things that I don't know if we thought of. So that that's kind of my comment on that. So I would just say that I do think there should be specific reference to Alameda City Charter in and that may be just a melding of two areas. Back to you, Councilman. I'm sorry. And then there's. The last sentence of that said The Sunnyvale charter contains information about prohibition of interference. So, I mean, you can easily just plop our section in there. Okay. Councilmember Avella So I was just going to say the Sunnyvale policy includes, I think, what is really lacking, which is an interpretation of our charter. I think it's great that we have a charter, but I think part of the issue that we've been asked, but part of what we've been tasked at doing is is actually interpreting the charter in terms of how it's applied. And I think referencing our charter section as Sunnyvale has done would be helpful. But I do think our charter says very specifically and it uses the word I think Councilmember de SAC didn't, I think he maybe interchanged the words, but it says that that neither the council should the council should not interfere with the execution by the city manager of his powers or duties, except for the purpose of inquiry. And that's where the the Sunnyvale language defining what an inquiry is is helpful because our our charter lacks that. And then it says an attempt by the council member to influence and I think, again, outlining and defining what we mean by influence would be helpful in the making of an appointment. But part of the city manager's listed duties includes the appointment, discipline and removal of all officers employees of the city under his jurisdiction. So I think, again, there's that fine line. I don't I think that's been pretty clear and pretty clearly drawn. So I think there's an I and I've looked I also looked at the Sunnyvale Charter. Its language is very similar to ours. So I think to the mayor's point of referencing and inciting back should be pretty easy to do, especially if we compare our charter with their charter. One thing I really liked about the Sunnyvale Handbook is it had a little glossary section. Not even section was like half of a page, but pertinent phrases. Were. Spelled out, okay, are we ready for some? Do one more quick things. And I also thought that, you know, it had a really well thought out progressive, I guess sanctions is the word they use. So there was actually some guidelines in case there was an issue. And we had an instance before where, you know, somebody had asked for a police officer to be disciplined based on an interaction with that member's family. So I want to make sure that doesn't happen. So, I mean, to me to me, that's a violation of the charter, if anything is so I want to make sure that, you know, we make sure that that's especially pointed out. So is the direction. If I'm understanding council the direction is we like the Sunnyvale language minus the quotes and but we want to incorporate the the specified aspects the areas where the Alameda the draft Alameda handbook went more specifically into charter a reading of meetings some just some things that Sunnyvale didn't I think I think we really can combine both of them for the best of all worlds and zation policy. Um you know. I. This is a code of conduct for the city council, um, and other electeds, I think an appointed, um, you know, I, I think that one may merit a little further discussion. I don't recall seeing that in the Sunnyvale Handbook. So at this point, unless someone feels awfully strongly. Barrett. I think maybe we get this done. And I. Understand. Is there a separate policy? I just. Well, it's not before us in anything that was provided council or vice mayor. And that's why I think. Well, I guess the first question is, are we going to make a motion to do something or are we just going to send staff off with a general sense of the council. Going back to the the staff report? So. Well, it's and I think the city manager even said this in the beginning that he doesn't necessarily expect us to to come up with a record or that to adopt somebody tonight. But the recommendation is that we adopted as drafted or adopt a truly proposed social media. And then, you know, we got the Sunnyvale language, I think, after the staff report was drafted. So but the city mayor and city attorney, Mr. Chen, can you tell us, what do you think is preferable? Should this council make a motion or is staff direction sufficient or something else? It's you know, we're always happy to take your motion, especially if it means that you would give us specificity so that we can go back and do our work better. But my colleague, the city manager, may have a different thought on this. We definitely want to get your feedback one way or another so that when we bring something back to you that's consistent with your thinking. Mr. Levitt, your thoughts? I'm good with either. Either way, I've been writing down different elements. It sounds like Sunnyvale is sort of the baseline. And then you have some specifics out of Alameda that you want to do. So if the better direction we get, better, we are. But I'm I'm good with either. Vice mayor next. Page. So I'll just try to make a motion which would be to give direction to staff to return to the council with, with a code of ethics that is very much based on the Sunnyvale document. I did not as I didn't hear a lot of significant changes that needed to be had. And given that you've made the list, I'll say consider adding or where the appropriate place to provide the additional items, agenda setting, fraternization, etc. that may not belong in the ethics, but that, you know, I think you could come back and talk about how the city is going to address that issue or would propose to address that issue if it's not the right place. So then I was trying to figure out where it goes. Right. But this is fraternization among council members and board and commission members because that's what this handbook is addressing. And elected and I think we. Could be staff, etc.. Yeah. This. So just so I'm clear, this is a city council code of conduct in council member handbook. Right. I understand. So I guess I'm saying there's an interest. It does overlay with city of elected officials and appointed officials. The fact I would say we should expand it to the staff for consideration and we're just asking staff to consider it and come back with what the recommendation might be. I respectfully disagree. I don't think that it is the City Council's place to implement policies for the staff, especially in this item before us. That is a city council handbook, but I'll defer to the city attorney. And so maybe I think we can we heard the council's concerns and the city manager and I will work together to bring back whatever is appropriate. And it may not be an item, it may be some of the format, but we'll we'll come back to you. So I'll finish making my motion because I didn't get there. So it would include that direction for that consideration, but it would also include the direction to include social media language that does not prohibit but does highlight the Brown Act considerations. What did you excuse me just for clarification based where did you say we are directing them to bring back a fraternization policy for a staff sitter? Whether they should come back with a fraternization policy. Whether that's appropriate. And where where it would go. It's not I didn't they were not directing and put it in here. And there might be a fraternization. They may say we already have it covered. They may say that we think that this is a good idea. We'll bring it back as a policy. But yeah, yes. But referring to city staff when we're talking about a city council handbook. Referring to elected and appointed officials, but also broadening it to include city staff. Yes. I hear you don't like the broad name, but but I haven't heard that that this is an inappropriate, minor amendment to the direction that everybody should play by the same rules. And so if we're considering it for elected and appointed officials, we might as well also just included a B on that. So I think I think, you know, the city manager and I think understand that there's some interest in the council for us to bring in this information back and we'll just bring the information back to you at whatever appropriate form that will be excellent. I could live with that. Okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second? I mean, I'll second it. Okay. We have a in discussion. Councilmember Daza. Yes. I will support the motion. Only because I think it's important for us to have language come back to us where we can make a decision, yay or nay, howsoever we want. The thing that I'm going to look for, though, is language that is specific to the code of conduct regarding interference in the appointment process. Because if we leave it vague, then the code of conduct is going to be as vague as the charter that were last. So many people are saying is vague, which I do not believe the charter is vague. The vague is quite clear. The charter is quite clear. So but I think it's more important than just to have the conversation just started so that we can make a decision. One last point. So in terms of department heads, the city council does have a role with department heads in the charter. So it's the city council that determines the offices of the departments and that the city manager then fills those offices. But it's the city council who determines the offices of the departments. And we can make we can change the composition howsoever we want. So there is a review process and it's charter item two, dash three, take a look at it. So I just want to make sure that whatever we're doing is in the spirit and in keeping with the recommendations of the civil grand jury. That is the reason we're considering this today. So and I understand that the city attorney and city manager are also cognizant of that. And, you know, this civil grand jury was not concerned with fraternization among staff or whatever. But I trust our our city staff to come back to us with an informed product. So we've had a motion, we've had a second all in favor. Oh, I was going to add one more comment, but. I. Think we've had a lot of comments. One last one. And, you know, we are going back into closed session. Okay. Just a drafting request that we don't have to cut and paste like parts of our charter and sunshine urns. We can just incorporate them by reference. That would be a preference of mine. Okay. Are we ready to vote? Let's do it. All in favor. I oppose. Abstain. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you, everyone. Okay. We are moving on to item seven City Manager Communications.