Presentations from Avery & Associates and Bob Murray & Associates to Discuss Their Qualifications and Process for the Recruitment of a City Manager for the City of Alameda. (Human Resources 2510)
I would hope I mean, obviously this last election with a total change of slate of the people that we could change as far as in our city government. I think it clearly send a message that we don't want business as usual that has happened in the past and other words, last minute pushing things, items through. So I would hope that that's a clear message. And if it won't, if it wasn't a clear message, it will become a clear message in next a period of time in two years. But hopefully you understand the importance of making sure people have adequate time and you give plenty of notice as far as it. And maybe take the Sunshine Ordinance a step further to show your good faith on that issue. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other speaker slips on either of those. So at this point, is there a presentation here? Good evening. Mayor and council members, we're here today to speak to two very. Very qualified. Executive recruitment firms. We are Bob Murray and Paul Chmura. Paul Chmura is from Avery and Associates and he will make a presentation to you lasting approximately 25 minutes or less. He will start out probably giving his presentation and then there will be time for questions. During that time, Bob Murray will be waiting outside and when Paul, Mr. Chmura has finished. His presentation, I will take him out and. Bring Mr. Murray in to speak to you. And so we can just start up. Thank you very much. Q Thank you very much. Good evening. Thank you, Madam Mayor and Mr. Vice Mayor and fellow Council members for the opportunity to meet with you and present our credentials near need for a new city manager. I know that as a relatively new City Council decision like this of is of critical importance to you to help you provide the stewardship to guide the city forward. And I can appreciate that you would have many questions and wonder how a process works and how you would have a good level of involvement and opportunity to ensure that the people brought forward and the person that you select is best for your city. So I would like to to keep the majority of my presentation very brief and try and respond any questions you might have. But in the way of introduction, Avery Associates, we're based in Los Gatos. So of the major recruitment firms in California, we're the only one that's Bay Area based. I think that's very advantageous for Bay Area communities because it does allow us insights and knowledge of many of the dynamics that go on here in the Bay Area. And we know there are some very special considerations in trying to come into this particular area. We have an extensive track record for city manager as well as other public sector assignments. As a matter of fact, currently we're winding down or getting close to winding down the search for the city of Emeryville, City Manager. And we recently completed the city administrator search for the city of Oakland. So we've been up here in your backyard talking to your neighbors. And over the past 12 months, we've finished assignments for the cities of San Mateo, Sunnyvale, Sal, San Francisco, Pacifica. So we have a real recent experience here in the Bay Area, specifically the peninsula in the South Bay areas. So we certainly have a very active and robust database, I think you'll find with all of the major search firms. We we all have a very strong database and have relationships with people who would be candidates for a position like this. There are a number of challenges that you're going to face in a search. You all have heard about the demographics for public sector servants and the fact that we're losing so many to retirement. That's really proving to be a challenge for many agencies. I think one of the advantages that a community like Alameda has is that you're very well-regarded, a very positive reputation, and I think could be very attractive. The fact that your community is so engaged and involved, I think many would see that as a positive in the fact that several of you as a matter of fact, the entire council is relatively new to your assignments. I think many would see that as a wonderful opportunity to try and connect and move forward with with you as a council. So I'd like to just close by by sharing with you, I think there are a number of differentiators that our firm provides that would be of interest and perhaps great value to you. One is again the local connection that we have. The second is the manner in which we vet and evaluate our candidates. Your speaker earlier talked about the importance of really doing thorough background research. We use a methodology called behavioral interviewing and in addition, the work product that we provide to you includes a pretty thorough assessment of that interview, as well as to initial reference interviews that we've conducted and have documented and would present to you during our overall candidate presentation. I think the other highlight of our offering is that we don't limit the amount of interaction that we would have with you as a council or trips to the city. That's one of the advantages of being here in the Bay Area, notwithstanding the traffic. But we would be here as often as is required throughout the process to ensure that we bring your search to a successful close. So if I may, I know you have a number of questions, so I'll just end the presentation there. Thank you. Thank you. Member Ashcraft. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Camera. And thank you for the materials you presented. I found them very informative. And I'm just going to ask you some questions from the that pamphlet that you have or the booklet that you shared with us that I know was also provided to the public as one of the attachments to this meeting . So on the first page of your cover letter, you mention, actually my question was how many other searches do you anticipate conducting if you are engaged to conduct the search for Almeida's new city manager? Hmm. Generally, at any given time, we would have between 15 and 20 active searches. Bill Avery, my partner and I, I run lead on all of those searches, although we don't do it together. So at any given time, we would have different assignments. Our recruitment team includes research outreach specialists. We have folks that help us with our background. We have administrative support that help us out with a lot of the clerical duties. I think the the important part we have found with recruitment is because there are different times and places where the activity level is much greater. The real important aspect is to kind of stage and make sure that your recruitments are properly structured and organized to ensure that you get the kind of attention that you would require. And then also on page one of your cover letter, you mentioned that you've had extensive interaction with city council, city managers and assistant city managers. Based on our labor relations practice, can you explain to us what that means? Sure. The. Prior to the last two years, Bill Avery's major focus was labor relations. As a matter of fact, we had two practice areas. One was the labor relations activity which he headed, and then the second was search, which I headed more recently as that level of activity has tended to wind down, he's started to engage more frequently on the search side. So what was the labor relations practice? He would work with various client cities, city councils, managers in handling contract negotiations and grievances or for his clients. I'd say thank you. And then the you mentioned in the now I'm looking at the proposal page one, and you mentioned that Mr. Avery had served in the past as a city manager. When where was that? Bill was the city manager for the town of Los Gatos. Okay. Many, many years ago, as a matter of fact, he was at that time, I believe, the youngest town, a town manager at the ripe age of 26. Wow. But shortly after, chose to go into the consulting business, which he started in 83. And that's the organization that remains today. And in that same paragraph, you talk about you had 19 years of high technology experience, which provides the basis for many of the recruitment strategies and tactics utilized by the firm. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure. In the older days of public sector recruitment, it tended to be a very passive activity where you would post job announcements or advertisements and wait for candidates to come in. I came out of high tech where it was a very competitive, probably the most competitive recruitment market in the private sector. And so I just introduced a number of different approaches where we developed and established databases. We did a lot of proactive outreach and approached potential candidates that might not be looking for another position. I think over time that's now become more commonplace. I like to think that we pioneered a lot of that, and over the years I think all the firms have gotten much better in doing that. And. And then. And I want to leave room for my colleagues to ask the questions, too. But just a couple more on page two of your recruitment proposal. You talk about the recruitment strategy and services provided. And this is the the process of possibly involving the community and the city manager search. And so there were three options. One is the creation of an online survey accessible to the public through the city's website. Two is convening a community meeting to solicit input on the ideal qualifications and attributes for the city manager. And three is the Council identifies representatives from the community who would then be contacted and interviewed by the consulting firm. And my question is simply, do you ever use a hybrid of, you know, one or two or more of those? Well, it's a hybrid, if it was to, I guess. Do you have a combined those methods? Yes, we have. In the past will develop a an online survey, utilize SurveyMonkey as the portal and handle the community input thusly. We've also conducted community meetings, community discussions to identify the ideal attributes that they would envision in their perfect candidate. And so we've done that as well. There have been some communities that have asked us to do both. Some communities tend to prefer the electronic methodology. In either case, we would be open to doing two of those activities, especially recognizing that many communities here locally tend to look to their community for input. Thank you. And then my last question is on page four of this proposal. You note that upon request, your firm will also arrange for summary background evaluations on the city's final one or two candidates, and that the costs of these investigations are considered independent of the recruitment expenses I listed below will be invoiced separately. Do you have a ballpark range for us of what those investigations tend to run? Right. They will run around anywhere from 400 up to $800. And it's really depends on how many different communities that the candidate would have lived, how many different states, because it would have to be a county by county record search for their criminal records, their civil activities and those sorts of background checks. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Madam. If. Vice mayor. Mr. Kimura, thanks for the presentation. I had a question. On the past 18 months. You list a number of cities. Where you've been successful at hiring city managers or searching for city managers that I assume have been hired. What was the average time from start to finish and the longest and the shortest of those? That's the first question. And then the second question is what happened with Emeryville? Because they were. You got a candidate that got hired and now you're looking for them. Yes. Emeryville has been now a client for three times. Um, we have been successful in finding them a good city manager. And, actually, I apologize. This is our. This is our third time. The current city manager chose to accept a position with the city of Oakland. And as a result, we were asked to come and conduct a search to replace her. And then the shortest, the longest and the average time to get a city manager. Well, as far as the timeline, it will range anywhere from, I would say, minimum from five months. To what what did it range for these if you. Oh, okay. Generally, we're looking at anywhere from 5 to 7 months. In some cases, it's gone out to nine and ten months for a number of different reasons. Um, the reason the city manager oftentimes will take a little bit longer is if there are a current sitting manager, they'll have a contract that would provide for definitive terms of how soon they can leave their current role. So even though you may have made the appointment or made the selection, it may be anywhere from 30 to 90 days for that tender. This the list of of can of completions, it was minimum, say, five months, maximum of nine. Yes. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you. Any other council questions? Comments. Remember Day Shop? Oh, sure. Thank you. Thank you very much for taking the time to come out this afternoon. Really appreciate it. I guess the question I have is you mentioned the possibility of working with the community to ascertain attributes and other things that residents and business owners might be interested in and the profile of a city manager, whomever she or he may be. Do you profile cities in in advance and say, well, on the one hand, we'll certainly get input from residents the council so chooses to go that direction. On the other hand, based upon my knowledge and working experience and who I know that I have a sense as to, you know, what kind of attributes work so that you go into it not not in a vacuum, but have a sense as to what might work. I mean, because you come from a. Small town, Los Gatos, which is a nice town, obviously. Bedroom community. And like Alameda. But. Silicon Valley a lot smaller. A lot more zeros. Yeah. But, um. So. So do you come into it with a sense as to the profile that you think might fit so that, um. I don't know how many people on your database. So of the 50 know you in advance have a sense that maybe 25 work. Mm hmm. The we typically would not come in with a preconceived notion. There are several different elements of starting a search. And this is really comes from my private sector experience. In order to fill the need, you really have to understand what the expectations of the desires are. And that's what makes the discussions with all of you on an individual basis so important, because that provides really the foundation for what it is we think we're going to be looking for. I think we have a general sense, given the community profile of things that will be important. But until we hear that from you, until we hear that from your community, we're not going to really solidify our profile. And that's the basis of that we use for the various job announcements that we've put together like this were their marketing pieces, but they really incorporate the common interests, the common themes that we're hearing from all of you. You're not going to agree on every little detail. And that's why we try not to get into that level of detail, but really some of the bigger, broader picture issues that are going to be important in your consideration. Thank you. I appreciate that very help. And I appreciate it because in a way it gets. Incorporated into your your handout like a glass to me. Good in Matt if you. And. And it gives kind of a sense as to the prospects what kind of town we are. So I think that's a great approach. Thank you. Absolutely. And it's interesting, if I may add on to that councilmember. Oftentimes in our discussions, you hear a lot of the same words, the same terminology. And yet it's really important for us to try and connect with what it is you're conveying and what you're saying and how that relates to this particular community. Because everyone always wants leadership, but how does that translate into what's going on here locally? And those are the kinds of things, the subtle things, I think, that are really important for a recruiter to pick up the nuance that they need to pick up in working with all of you. Thank you. Remember. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Cameron, for taking time out of your schedule and making the presentation and sharing your background with us. Councilmember De Sorkin kind of touched on one of the issues I was concerned about, and I appreciate you. You going into, you know, how you would evaluate the culture of Alameda. I mean, a lot of towns, a lot of cities think they're special and unique and no offense to them, but we are. So there's Culture Point number one. I am also interested in, you know, the the whip the methodology of use to go about it involved the community and, you know, understanding the culture. But you have or have you in the past I say this because we did this last time, you know, involved the community and, you know, the interviewing or the narrowing of of the candidates. And then the second part of that question is, you know, how many candidates do you anticipate based on your history and our size, that you would present to us as finalists. When we would come back to you? Generally, we would recommend and have detailed presentations on maybe six or seven candidates. We'll also have materials on additional people we've looked at so that during the course of that discussion, you may hear or see something that you really like or perhaps you like better in the back of candidates. So that's where we can finalize your candidate selection. Are we come to you only with recommendations? You make the final choice as far as process put in this business. We've seen it done every single way. I professionally I feel that it's most effective for the council to start with a long list of candidates and maybe narrow it down to a shorter list. And then at that point, engage your community panels or perhaps your department head panel and other iterations of that evaluation process, and then ask them to provide inputs and insights to you, not decisions or not go or no go, but inputs in terms of what they see, what they feel the candidate offers , and where they may have concern areas so that as you further meet with the candidates, you can determine if in fact those concerns are valid or if you feel comfortable with what the candidate provides as a as a just kind of a style. Then one last question. Thank you for that answer. In the pool. Maybe this is something you base on, you know, the culture and the interviews you have with the council in the community. But are we going to be able to see, you know, maybe. A diversity of candidates as far as their experience. You know, some candidates that might be not city managers yet, but, you know, city manager material, some that may be looking better in a smaller city looking to move up, some that may want to do laterals, some that may be at the tail end of their career and, you know, wanting a smaller city. I mean, are we going to get some diversity in that or do you kind of focus in on, you know, one particular type of candidate? No, I think that, first of all, a lot of that's going to be dictated and determined by all of you as the council in terms of what would be ideal. I would anticipate that because of the size of your operation, the magnitude and scope of this particular city and the job I would be it would take an unusual talent, unusually talented individual, to come in as a first time city manager. This the city is could be perhaps far too complex for a first time city manager. Now, could a city manager from a smaller organization come in? Absolutely. One from a bigger organization could come in, be successful as well. You know, Los Gatos was brought up as an example. And there are very, very in many respects a similar town to Alameda. But the the type of person that would work there is going to be very polished, professional, very strong with community relations and is going to be very capable. Someone like that could be an outstanding candidate for you. So I don't know that there is a kind of a formula or a recipe. I do know that there are several environments that probably are not going to work for a place like Alameda. And, you know, we would discuss that again as we profile together with you. Thank you again for your time. So it's my understanding where you have a tight schedule. Mary Jo, I appreciate your time also and your answers thus far. I have a question in regards to being green, and I think our community is green. How significant do you think having the hard copy of brochures is as opposed to doing it all online? Have you ever done it all online? We have on several occasions done it online. One of the. One of the values of doing hard copy. And I appreciate issues of sustainability that we're all so sensitive to right now. But one of the values of doing hard copy is we want as much visibility to your position as we can possibly get, and we don't have hard data on it. But we hear so often that a good candidate learned of this position because they saw the brochure on a friend's desk, or it was shared with them by a peer at an association meeting. So there is, I think, a level of value. And again, it's all antidote, all. But we think there there can be value. Now, at the same time, we can minimize the numbers of printings. We can minimize the numbers of mailings that we would do. And frankly, if it really became a significant issue for the council, we'd find a way to do it without. So let me ask you, I want to follow up on this. Who do you mail to? You have how many of these brochures do you mail? We would mail anywhere from 150 to 350. And you have a list that we. Have city managers throughout the state, and there are some larger organizations that maybe an assistant city manager, county managers, some people outside the state. Okay. And then how many do you pass out then that you have at this table? So you think people see them. For a city manager, a brochure? We wouldn't hand this many out because unless we were at the League of Cities and it just coincided with that meeting or the city managers meeting in January, we might have a supply of 25 that we might hand out. And on on your letter, you'd note that there's internet posting on sites such as the Icmje. Is that for city managers, then? That's correct. So city managers can be looking on that site? Yes. If they're interested in a job. Yes. So you think that when you've hired these city managers for other cities, that they did not look at the website that they found out about it really? From a hard brochure? No, I think well, I think there are a number of ways they evaluate and find it. One certainly is online. That's probably one of the more common mechanisms now. Another is through referral, where they may have been told or informed of the position by others in the industry and in some cases through outreach, direct outreach that we've done. All right. Thank you. And members member Ashcraft, just. A follow up to the mayor's question. Is it possible to use recycled paper for your printing? Yes. Thank you. Number one real quick logistical question. I anticipate that there is no reason why a good candidate can't come from Southern California. Do you make the arrangements for staying overnight? Is that included in the budget? Would that be included in. The cost of the interview is not. We will coordinate and work with the city to ensure that the process is is set up and structured to ensure the candidates are here. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your coming out here this evening. And now we're going to proceed with the next interview. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate the consideration. The next will be Bob Brown Associates. Good evening. Good evening. Thanks for inviting me this evening. My name is Bob Murray. I founded Bob Marine Associates in 2000. I bring over 30 years executive recruiting experience in the public sector. I've probably done during that time 125 city manager searches throughout California and the West Bank. Alameda presents a unique opportunity. It's one of California's jewels. I, I think back about the searches that I've done. And oftentimes it's difficult to compare cities. The search that I've done that best compares, I think, is for Coronado, California. They don't you know, they have a strong military presence in San Diego. Coronado actually has some of the presence there, but almost an island community. Very narrow isthmus connects it to the southern part of the San Diego area. So I bring a lot of experience. I've done a number of searches for city managers in the local area Walnut Creek, Concord, Martinez, Mountain View, Menlo Park. So I'm familiar with the dynamics of executive search, certainly in the Bay Area and some of the issues you are likely to face as you go about recruiting a city manager . I think our approach to executive search is different than most. And the fundamental approach that Bob Marine Associates takes to search is to try and make sure that that what we do is driven by your needs as the representatives of the residents of Alameda. So everything is focused on learning from you both individually and as a group, what it is you're looking for in a new city manager, the background, the skills, the experience, knowledge of the field. And it really starts by gaining that fundamental and just standing by meeting with you each individually, to solicit from you your perception of the issues, challenges and opportunities facing the community not only at the moment, but in particular as you look to the future. What are the issues you'll be addressing? You'll ask the city manager and his or her staff to assist you. So based on that, we undertake a very aggressive recruitment effort on your behalf. There's no need to hire a recruiting firm if you simply think that running ads get you the job done. It really requires a firm with the experience to research quality candidates, to use a network they've established. We've established over the years to reach out to folks and ask them to apply for the position. Executive search is all about soliciting the interest of people who may not be looking for a new job. I think importantly, you're facing one of the tighter markets in city management for candidates in several years. I used to be we get 80 to 100 candidates every time we did a city manager search. Now, that number varies between 25 and 45, maybe 50. You're also doing a search in a far different environment now and was the case in the past. I think you are now working in an environment that demands transparency and community engagement, even in the search for your chief executive. I think it's very important we've taken that approach with a number of communities, most recently in Redondo Beach and in Tucson, Arizona, where we helped the council design processes by which the community was engaged both at the beginning of the search and at the conclusion when candidates were selected. I think you need to approach that diligently and carefully to ensure that you get quality candidates. But we're here to assist you with that. We offer the, you know, industry guarantee. But I think we're one of the leading firms, not just in the West, but in the United States. We've done searches all over the country, probably notable. We've been hired to do searches in three of the largest cities in the last two years that have become available. And you don't get those assignments unless you're tops in the field. Those include Phenix, Dallas, Tucson. We were recently hired by the city of San Jose. I've got good news and bad news today. The good news is they're going to promote someone from inside. The bad news is they don't need me anymore. I got fired before I started. Never happened before? No. That's for so. I appreciate very much the opportunity to be here. I know you've got a packed house, a lot of stuff on your agenda, so I'd be happy to entertain your questions. Thank you. Council Members. Member Ashcraft. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Murray, for your presentation. So how much of your work recruitment work is done in percentage wise? How much of your recruitment work is done in California versus other states? I think the firm right now, probably 80 to 90% is in California. The remaining part of it is in Arizona, Washington, Oregon. We've done a lot of work in the Midwest and in Florida in particular, but at present we're undergoing a transition and we backed away from some of that that's now handled by a former colleague. But I trained to be a recruiter and she's decided to be a recruiter on her own. I see. And if Alameda were to decide to engage your firm, how much of your time would we would we expect. As much as you'd like and pay for. It as much as you like and pay for these? I have a very. Lois, I'm being. I have this warped sense of humor, so. You know me. I have about four active recruitments right now. Most typically people are doing eight and ten in the industry. So I have quite a bit of time and it would be a priority because of the quality of the community. You know, if we do well here, are successful here. You're a great reference. I would certainly spend more than enough time. And then finally in in the last say. Five years. What percentage of your recruitment work has focused on finding city managers versus all the other ones? I can tell you in the last four years we've done 40 city manager searches and I personally handle probably 35 of those. And were there other positions that you filled more of? I mean, just you listed a number of different. Yeah. Well, I think city manager positions are are not filled as frequently as others. So we do a lot of police chief work. A lot of fire chief. I think I remember a finance director for the city of Alameda. So we work in a variety of areas. I'm doing a CFO search for Las Vegas Valley Water District right now. So we handle a variety of positions across industries. You know, I think one of the things that's unique, certainly about Alameda, among others, that you have your own power company. I've done searches for general managers, for power companies as well. So I bring an understanding of this community having done work here before, of what you're about, and certainly have done searches across the board in the public sector. Thank you. Thank you. I swear. I'm. If you could. Explain to us, Mr. Murray, your most recent city manager placement experience in the Bay Area. How long did it take and what would you say the biggest challenge was in getting that fit? Martinez was the most recent search. I finished that early this year. The search took in total about 90 days from the day I started until the council was interviewing candidates, and then it took another three and a half weeks or so for them to close the deal. I think the challenge there in the council would agree was the circumstances under which the previous manager left. It was very unfortunate. Manager had anger issues exploded publicly. So the city has over time had a reputation for being difficult for managers. We got an experienced city manager for him who was was very good. His name's Gentleman's name is Rob Bolick. And I would welcome your colleague Rob Schroder, the mayor. There is no me four years and I think would speak well of the work we've done. Thank you. Remember. De Saag. Thank you very much for coming out here. And I note your comment regarding engaging the community early on. I think that's absolutely important and I look forward to understanding, you know, what, what might be your particular model in engaging the community. But my question also has to do with in addition to engaging the community, to find out attributes or whatever that that they think are important is your firm, you know, because you've got at any point in time, you know, access to a wide range of city prospective city managers. Does your firm do you have a presumptive idea as to what might fit in certain towns like Alameda and and if you have that kind of approach. Oh. How do you arrive at it? Or maybe you don't. Sure. I'm not. I don't know if you'd like me to go into detail about some of the thoughts and how we've helped communities engage their residents and then remind me of the second part. But the second part is. Well, when I get out of your word, because, you know, it gets murky. After a while. So several we've seen we've taken a couple of approaches depending on our client. Oftentimes, we're asked to meet with community leaders one on one, you know, at a conference room and learn from them. It might be a business community group. It might be, you know, Part Street versus Webster, just a different business interests in town, the residents, you know, Alameda Point. All of those things are people that you may wish us to have us meet with them. Oftentimes. So I say to city councils, that's a great idea. But for every person you ask me to meet with, there'll be three or four who say, Why didn't they ask me? So I think even more important news for you to host a meeting, a public meeting and call it a town hall meeting or whatever. Invite anyone in the community to participate and solicit their comments, as you said, regarding the attributes of the ideal candidate and their notions about issues. All of that can be in advance of us beginning our work to actually solicit the interest of people. In fact, I think it should be because if we're out there recruiting before you've heard that and before we've heard that kind of well, it doesn't make sense. And we're happy to facilitate those sessions. And I've done that a number of times. In Tucson recently, we had 100 people. Make comments regarding the city manager in Redondo Beach during a very controversial time. Ten people. So, you know, you never know. In terms of quality candidates. And would we have a notion? Sure, I wouldn't be a good recruiter if I didn't. But that has to be driven by my understanding and learning from you. What's important in Alameda? So what might be someone who might be a great candidate in Redondo Beach or Concord or Martinez may not it now. I mean, your your issues are different. And so I want to gain a great understanding that and then look at our contacts, look at who's out there, do the research and encourage people to apply who could do an outstanding job on your behalf. Thank you. And Brody. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And thank you, Mr. Murray, for taking time out of your schedule to come to us today. I really appreciate that. And I also appreciate Councilman Murdoch's question about community input and your answer, because that's what I was going to ask, but I don't have to. So we have more time. So the one question I will ask you, though, is. You know, the talent pool that you're going to draw from for recommendation for our city manager? I mean, do you envision it including or not including, you know, non city managers that are ready to move up, lateral city managers that are just looking for something, a change, but, you know, are doing equivalent work in equivalent sized cities, you know, or even larger city, many city managers from larger city managers that may be willing to and then maybe at the end of the career and want a slower pace than, say, an Oakland or a San Jose or one of those larger cities. And, you know, how how will you go about, you know, deciding what the mix of the finalists and how many finalists do you envision providing to us? So let me. Start with the mix in the positions candidates may have held. First of a lot of it depends, again on our discussions. No. Are you looking for an experienced city manager? Is that the only kind of candidate? My comment to you would be, if that's the case, you're probably going to not do as well. As you might do if you were considered willing to consider people at the second level, assistant city managers, possibly even some department heads from larger communities, you know, city 250, 300,000. There's some real talent in those areas. So first again, I'm going to beat this dead horse until it's bloody, I guess. So much of it depends on your expectations. I'm really here as a resource. I mean, I think your group should include people who have served as city managers, assistant city managers, possibly department heads. I think then it gives you a good mix from which to choose. And typically, you know, it used to be I'd struggle to get to eight people to to recommend. Now it's more like five or six. It's just not that deep pool. What's occurred with the transition of baby boomers is folks that have been city managers for years are retiring and a lot of the talent in the public sector is retiring. The shadow of the baby boom represents about a 25% reduction in talent. McKinsey did a study in 98, said the war for talent is coming, and they were absolutely right. And so the other thing is you see people with less experience in candidate pools of 40 somethings, you know, and you look out to current managers and a lot of them look like me from the back of a room, you know, gray hair. Hopefully they can still stand up. You know, all of those things. So it's a tight market. The good news is Alameda has a great reputation, a lot of cachet. I remember one my my folks looked at buying a home here. It's a great community. Thank you. And as a recovering attorney who lived by the billable hours, I appreciated your work sense of humor. Thank. Good evening, Mr. Murray. I have a question in regards to technology, how to utilize technology in your searches. Well. I like Al Gore. Invented the Internet. No. But we are kind of a leader in the use of technology in the public sector for executive search. I think it's been ten years now that we developed. A lot of people call it different things. It's it's really a database that contains the names that present of over 23,000 people. And so if a candidate is interested in a search we're doing, they apply online. We don't. We get very few paper resumes. We get very few resumes via email, although of course, we'll accept them. But almost everything we do is online. Our system resides in a server farm in the cloud that lives in Arizona. And so everyone applies through that system and becomes part of our database. And one of the things that it's allowed us to do on the back end is keep our costs down, remain competitive, because a lot of the information candidates provide becomes part of our reports to you. So it serves a dual purpose. It's an easy way for people to learn about the position to access it. We know historically we get somewhere between 20 and 25,000 hits a month on the system. So it's very well received in the community. So we're we have a we're on Twitter, we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook. We make all of our positions known on social media. I stopped counting my contacts on LinkedIn when it got to 3200. But but there's a reason people follow you on LinkedIn when you're recruiters, because they know they're going to hear about the positions and they want to have direct access to you. So I think, you know, we're not the bleeding edge of technology, but certainly we make effective use of it, particularly social media and automated application tracking, all of those things. What about hardcopy brochures? Do you still use those? Absolutely. HardCopy and PDF. How do you use the hard copies? We send them to people in the mail. How many do you mail? How many do you think you'd be mailing? We print usually between 103 hundred, depending on on the audience that a client and we agree should be approached. Okay. So in your case, a broader group you're talking about, it might be a greater number. We use a database, not only ours, but a database we also subscribe to. It gives us the names and addresses and email contacts. So we do it both hardcopy through the mail and by email. And you folks participate in the structure and the you know, nothing we put in that brochure. Will. Be there without your review. So some of the people that you recruit don't find out about it online then that you think they actually need a hard brochure. You know, if it can get past our secretary. We've won the battle. You know, if you think about it for a moment, I know some of our brochures never cross a manager's desk because someone on his or her staff doesn't want them to leave. So, you know, it's got to be the brochure. It's got to be electronic media and it's got to be personal phone calls. We'll make 70 or 80 calls on a recruitment, and that's all the stuff we do that's fundamental to executive search is to reach out to people and call them. And in regards to your community meetings, do do anything online for your community members. We have we've worked with cities to come up with SurveyMonkey exercises that have received some response. We've done that in a number of communities. We recently did it in Redondo Beach, where community engagement was very, very important. Goleta, California, Tucson did that as well. Thank you. You're welcome. Any other council questions? All right. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate you coming out. This is the end of this concludes our interview process. Okay. Well, thank you very much. It's my pleasure. I wish you luck with the search, and I'd be delighted to have the opportunity to help you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, Chief. Thank you. Well, just corruption. There's a powder keg like. Amanda. The forerunner of the parking lot. Thank you. All right. Our next agenda item is three A and we have one presentation from staff three. We're going to go forward because we have or amuse, but we have one staff presentation. So I have staff's presentation and then we'll have speakers on all four of them or use at once. And then we will have our council discussion on all four of them. I use that once and then we will vote individually on each MRU. Yeah. Thank you. If you have if you plan to comment on three A, three, B, three, C or three D, you could turn in your slips. And then we're going to receive a staff presentation. I'm schedule a little early. Little 557. Should we take a. If you want to. We need. No. Just open. Okay. We're going to we're 3 minutes ahead, right? Yeah. Okay. So we're going to take a three minute recess because we had scheduled this item for 6:00. Thank you. Okay. All right. All right. Um, we want to. Tonight. And try again. Thank you, everybody. We appreciate you coming out this evening. We are ready to resume. Hello. Americans, please take their seats. We are ready to resume. Thank you. All right. We're going to start with you. See if you can find a seat. I'd appreciate it if you would take a seat, because that's what our fire department likes. Thank you. And we're going to start with Steph's presentation, and that goes for all four of the employees. And then we're going to have public comment on all of the employees at the same time. So that's item three, A, three, B, three C and three D, and then we will have our comments and we will vote individually