A MOTION making an appointment to fill a judicial vacancy in the west division, west electoral district, judge position number two of the King County district court.
Thank you. Right. All right. Let me call as we begin the next item on today's agenda. Let me call members attention to an email sent to all of us, most recently at 812 this morning from Erika Newman with the application materials for the three people we will now consider for a vacancy in King County District Court. And also attached to that same email is a list of proposed interview questions. I call members attention to that so they can have the not only the application materials open, but the interview questions when needed as well. They're not assigned to be ready now with that disclaimer out of the way. Indeed, the next item on our agenda is making an appointment to fill a judicial vacancy in the West District of King County District Court, a process governed by King County Code for the appointment day. The Council advertised the vacancy and accepted applications until June 24th. We received full applications from three eligible candidates during the period. This process will proceed like our recent district court appointments. Members were sent and should have received the application materials by email on Monday. These materials were, as I said, sent again this morning. And we will begin today's proceedings with a brief staff report on the proposed motion from Erika Neumann of Central South, who sent that email most recently at 812 this morning. And after the South report, the committee will interview each candidate one at a time. During the interview, the candidates not being interviewed will be placed in the zoom waiting room so as to not get advance and get in advance on their interview questions or the other candidates responses. So again, members resist the urge to admit people from the waiting room. Once each candidate has been interviewed, if there is an interest among council members, the committee will go into the executive session to evaluate the qualifications of the candidates. If we do, we would then come out of an executive session and only then take up the legislation itself and make decisions. Are there any questions as well as to how we will proceed from either members or candidates before we get started? Cornwall council member calls you Madam. Mr. Chair, it's not. A question about the process, but rather did we have a subcommittee this time around in. We did not. We had three applicants, three fall out sessions, and so we did not have a subcommittee process. Thank you very. Much. All right, Miss Newman, the line is yours. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Eric Zimmerman, Counsel, Central. Staff Guidance for Apple's Motion Tool 210266. Begin on page eight of your packet. District Court is the county's court of limited jurisdiction and has responsibility for traffic infractions. Small claims and misdemeanor criminal offenses in the counties. Unincorporated areas. Cities that do not have the civil courts and contract with the firm. To. Provide those services are. For the. Adjudication of state offenses. How the court. Handles approximately 250,000 filings and throughout the four divisions letter, which are the north, south, east and West divisions. The proposed motion is to. Fill position number two in the. West electrical. District that was made. Vacant by the retirement of Judge Mark Couch. Under state law. King County Council, as a kind of legislative authority, is. Directed to fill. District court. Vacancies. By appointment. As the chair mentioned, there are three eligible applicants to be interviewed in the. In the. Current. For. The proposed motion, there's a blank for the name of the person. That will be appointed a. Problem and it will be needed to insert the name of the. Selected appointee. Mr. Chair, that concludes my remarks. Thank you, Miss Newman. Questions? Based on that, seeing none. Mr. Chair, I just had one orientation question, please. Thank you. I looked through all the materials and and I'm always interested in the bar ratings we have had in the past. A little summary chart to compile them. And I wondered if if that, if we had that in our material somewhere. Ms. NULAND Can you speak to that? Yes, the Bahrain council member Tomasky are in. The town meeting Paca. As well. As the app in the packet that you see there 812 this morning. Okay, I look there and thank you, Eric. Ah, is there a chart that summarizes them or is it just within each member's materials, which I did see them there. This is just a grid. Like a chart. Yeah, it could be. Let us know what page in the materials. That song or someone. Would that be great? I just didn't know much. Give me just a second. Since Page 14 of the KAL package. Thank you so much, A.J.. Erica, thank you so much for your work on this. Thanks, Mr.. Good catch. See no other questions. I expect we will interview. Each interview will take roughly 20 minutes in awesome candidates to provide an opening and closing remarks, each to be limited to 2 minutes with a timer. And as I you may have heard me mentioned, members receive a interview questions by email. As recently as 812 this morning. In accordance with past practice, I asked members to volunteer to ask those interview questions. Before the meeting, we randomly assigned the order of the interviews and will begin with call gender Dylan followed by Jennifer Cruz and finally Pauline formed. Unless there are any questions now, I will ask the clerk in a moment to place a Ms. Cruz name is framed in the zoom waiting room. The questions at this point. Then, Madam Clunk, if you would move those two people into the waiting room. And as a reminder to members and staff, please let the class and people from the waiting room and avoid the temptation to click on the admin button. And if the clerk's office can confirm for me when that's done. Mr. Chair, the two candidates are in the waiting room. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's Dylan. Thank you for your interest in the judicial position and welcome again to the committee of the whole. I would invite you to begin with a two minute opening statement and then we look forward to a conversation with you about the position. Thank you so much, Council. I'm just going to check my audio. Are you able to hear me? We are. Thank you. Thank you so much. It is an honor and a privilege to be before this committee. I was last before you about four months ago. I talked to you then about my background and how my background informs who I am today. You may recall, I'm the daughter of East Indian immigrants. My parents didn't go to college. My parents worked really hard. My father was a bus driver and my mother sewed clothes and raised three children. My parents also faced challenges of racism. Today, I'd like to tell you a little bit about the values that guide me. Values of hard work, gratitude and service to others. My work ethic comes from seeing my parents work hard. My parents put in long hours and saved money to buy a small grocery store. One of my jobs at the grocery store at the age of 12 was was going to the produce market at 5:30 a.m. on Saturdays to help my dad carry boxes of fruits and vegetables on Sundays. My parents would give back to the community by feeding the homeless population through their church. I've had opportunities that my parents could never dream of. I'm the first person to go to college and the first person to get an advanced degree in my family. But I've never lost sight of my values of giving back to the community. Before law school, I worked as the domestic violence victim advocate, first in the shelter and then in the King County prosecutor's office. I've also been a public defense attorney handling large caseloads in King County Superior Court, juvenile court. As well as. The district court. I've handled criminal cases as well as civil cases. In 2018, I achieved a dream of mine, and that was to work as a pro tem judge. But the last few years I've put in over 1000 hours on the King County District Court bench. I serve in all of the divisions. I've earned the reputation of being a hard worker who's prepared and efficiently manages large calendars and complex cases. Recently, I was entrusted with handling an in-person jury trial with a case that in the district court is rather complex a DUI blood draw case with expert testimony and interpreters that were not from certified or registered languages. I have a lot of gratitude for the judges and their guidance that they've given me, as well as the court staff. I'm also humbled and honored to gain the trust of the of the King County judges. You will see in your packets that I have submitted an endorsement list. I'm endorsed by 22 of the 25 King County judges on the district court. I'm also humbled to be endorsed by numerous superior court judges who I've appeared in front of during my practice. As the counsel knows, there is significant work that needs to be done. The council has heard from Judges Rogers and judges, not Judge Mahoney, of the backlog and the cases that are waiting going to trial due to the COVID pandemic. My values of hard work will guide me and my guide me. And the gratitude that I have will also guide me as I hope to address the this backlog. But I will never forget that this position of judge is a position of public trust. And I'm happy to answer your questions. Thank you so much. Colleagues. Someone prepared to ask the first question. Councilmember Balducci. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome back. It's good to see you again. The first question we have for you is. What is it about King County District Court that interests you the most? Thank you so much. What interests me the most about King County District Court is that it's the People's Court. Oftentimes in the King County District Court, it's the first time people have ever had a brush with the legal system. The King County District Court is a high volume court, but it's also a court where people come to resolve disputes with neighbors. It's also a court where and I've had the privilege of assisting people change their names to better fit who they are today. And that is an honor and a privilege to be part of people's who are and who do that. I feel that the King County District Court is a place that still has a lot of hope. I have worked in the King County Superior Court system for a number of years. I've handled large volumes of cases. Unfortunately, because of the sentencing guidelines, oftentimes judges hands are tied about whether they have discretion to sentence people to a lower potentially a lower sentence, even though there are alternatives in the district court. I feel more hopeful, which is why I want to be a judge in the King County District Court. I feel hopeful that oftentimes with a little bit of accountability by giving people the right resources, potentially, that could be asking somebody to fulfill chemical dependency evaluations and follow up treatment, and also maybe putting them in touch with benefits and supports that they didn't know that they had access to. We can truly help to strengthen the community. But at the same time, I, I believe that as a judge, we also need to hold people accountable. And my philosophy of when I'm on the bench is to progressively sanction people. And what I mean by that is when I'm on the bench handling review hearings, I'm very, very clear with the people who appear in front of me. I ask them if they understand what I have asked them to do in my sentencing order and whether there are any barriers that they face when trying to fulfill that sentencing obligation. I tell them what my expectations are very clearly, and then I ask them to repeat back to me what they understand about the sentencing order that I'm putting out that I'm crafting. To me, the District Court is a really hopeful place, and it's my hope that we can help people who occasionally have a brush with the legal system get back on track with their lives. In terms of people who we can't always see come back to the legal system again and again. It's also my hope that through programs like the Community Court Program, we can assist people with having providers in the same location as the judge sets so that they can be assisted . I believe that people should be held accountable, but I also think it's the district court's obligation and the judge's obligation to help people connect with resources so that they can better their lives and break the cycle of repeated recidivism. Thank you. Next question, colleagues. Councilmember Lambert. Thank you. Is it okay if I take it the case is out of order? Or do you want me to go in order? Doesn't matter to me. Okay. So I'm going to jump to question number five because that's the one I'm most interested in. The district court is facing a significant case backlog due to the pandemic disruptions over the past year. I'm sure you're well aware. What steps or strategies do you think? The Court And then of course, you as a judge should implement to expedite the people's opportunity to find justice within the courtroom. Thank you for your question, Councilmember Lambert. Nice to see you again. You are correct that there is a significant backlog. I know that the council has heard from the judges, Rogers and Mahoney. I logged on and watched that council meeting to inform myself of the issues that the district court faces. Obviously, the most critical issue that's facing the district court is is twofold. The first is before you is in your capable hands, it's the funding issue so that the district court can continue to provide justice in a meaningful way and and also address the backlog that the council has heard of in the district court. In the district court, we've been unable, because of the pandemic, to address small claims matters and also infractions. What concerns me also is the number of unfilled cases. I believe that there are a number of things that have assisted the District Court recently that will help us address the backlog. I have the skill set to expeditiously and fairly provide hearings. The things that have assisted the court recently is there is a new rule will 3.4 that allows defendants to appear through counsel. That's based on a case called state versus godliness. And this has allowed the district court to have shorter pretrial calendars. The defendants are, if I'm sorry, counsel is permitted to appear instead of their clients. That has shortened calendars. Oftentimes when we have just attorneys appearing, those calendars are shorter. That allows the court, the judges, to address issues such as mitigation by mail and other cases that we may not have had the time to address because of the heavy calendars that we used to have in the pretrial context. Some of my ideas to address the backlog are potentially having night court operate similar to how they how Seattle Municipal Court used to attack their large caseloads. Night Court is an excellent way to address infractions and small claims calendars. I'm hoping that that could be staffed by either additional magistrates or pro-tem judges. And if the budget budget doesn't allow potentially having the judges who are already on the bench have different shifts, we don't necessarily need to have a 9 to 5 workday. Through the pandemic, we've learned how to pivot and how to have the court operate in different ways than the traditional courtroom. And so not requiring defendants necessarily to be present through 3.4 definitely saves time for the court. Night court for infractions and small claims matters. Also, I think judges should strongly encourage mitigation by mail. And even though people have a right to a hearing on content on infractions, I believe that letting people know that they and that could be something simple by inserting into the the mailing for a hearing, we can simply insert a document that would let people know that they should should write their argument and present it to the court via mail. And the court will simply rule on that. That certainly will save a lot of time. I'm also encouraged that the prosecutor's office is also potentially going to have a King County deputy address some of the discovery issues as they relate to infractions. I believe that the prosecutor's office has, in their funding requests, have asked for staffing for the infraction calendar so that we are not the judges are not put in the position of dismissing infractions because discovery is not sent out in a timely manner. At the end of the day, the Council I'm sorry. The Court needs a judge who is capable of expeditiously handling handling large volume calendars in a fair way. I think that we can also use our remote hearings. I'm sorry, the remote technology that the court has has obtained through the pandemic to continue to have remote hearings as an access to justice tool. And Council Member Lambert when I sat on the city calendars where we still do infractions. I have heard from so many people that they have never had the chance to come to court because of the barriers that they face with parking in the West Division, parking downtown, meeting to get child care so that they can come to court for a couple of hours. The Zoom platform and remote hearings allow people to have meaningful access to the court. And it's my hope that the judges continue to use our remote platforms to provide access to justice so that we can efficiently work through the backlog. So I may make one quick. That's me. Yes. Sorry. Pardon me. You know, Bob, when you have near you, you're also including e-mail in that, right? Yes. The mitigation by mail is can be an electronic form. Our new case management system allows for people to to write to type their mitigation argument to a judge through the remote technology in our new platform. And I am proficient at using that new E court platform. And we we as you know, that was rolled out in October of 2020. If I met the judge, do not know about that. I'm very excited because that calls our CW in addition, at the same time, it speeds up your work, too. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It does. Thank you. Thank you. And I might have been remiss in not pointing out at the beginning, as I mentioned in the larger section, we're shooting for about 20 minutes per interview. So I would ask both members and Ms.. Dillon to be is to be mindful of that and thorough of course, but concise as possible as well. Councilmember Dombrowski. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have a customized question, if you'll in a minute. Ms.. Dillon. I'm just reviewing your resume. You've got a terrific background working in the legal system excuse me, from a number of perspectives, including at the Center for Children and Youth Justice, where you worked on gender bias issues, and a girls court to the Dorn Domestic Abuse Women's Network, where you worked in the field of domestic violence and helping those out. You were a prosecutor, you've been a defender, and you've worked in the courts as a judge. Quickly, just very quickly, I don't I don't mean to interrupt, but I have never worked with a prosecutor. I worked to the domestic violence victim advocate at the prosecutor's office. Thank you. That's what I meant. I wasn't I wasn't as clear there. But I appreciate you correcting the record with with that experience. And if you were to be a judge, you'd have a role or could have a role beyond just running your courtroom and dealing with individual cases or judges. And our courts have a a systems voice often in Olympia or before the county council or other bodies. And a big part of our work here at the county council and also in Olympia is looking at reforms to, in particular, a criminal legal system. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your views on whether there are things in the courts that are doing today cases and types of disputes or or currently criminalized conduct that you view maybe shouldn't be, and areas that we could do systemic systematic reform or systems reform to maybe deal with folks in a little bit different way, maybe away from the arrest prosecute jail model to a more of a a care model. And I just wondered if you have some thoughts on that and how you might be involved in that work to be on the district court. Thank you so much. I do think it's important that judges not only preside in the courtroom and do administrative work to in the running of the court, which is important work. But I also believe that judges should be in the community and a face of the legal system so that communities who may not have trust in the legal system gain more trust by having that personalized contact. I know that in the work that I've done through the juvenile court and working on reforming the sanctions model, and I worked collaboratively with the prosecutor's office and the school system to address status offenses so that that that also addressed disproportionality of racial minorities within the legal system . And we also the other goal was to reduce the number of incarcerated youth. So I do believe that working at the policy level to address and to have a social justice and equity ones based on the policies that the courts put in place, I do believe that we should be viewing everything that the court does in terms of policies and procedures through our social justice and equity ones. In terms of answering your question about my thoughts about other cases that potentially could be diverted from the system. I think it would be proper for me to talk about what I am familiar with. I'm familiar with the fact that the prosecutor's office would like to start a DUI court in the King County district court. Obviously, that is going to cost money. But the good thing about the DUI court is that there is federal money available for DUI courts. And I would look forward to working using my skill set in therapeutic courts to help the district court potentially start a DUI court or even preside in that court or assist the judges in any way to get that program off the ground. So I definitely believe in therapeutic processes. I'm also familiar with the fact that there is legislation and a movement to decriminalize and also not file driving while license suspended cases. I do believe that it is important for the community as a whole that we have insured drivers. Given given the pandemic and given the backlog, you've heard from civil attorneys who have testified before this council about the the fact that the cycle of poverty can be triggered by a traffic accident that's caused by somebody who isn't insured. I think that we should have programs such as the relicensing program. I think that that program should be robust so that we can assist people through the district court to be properly licensed and insured. And I and I believe that obviously I will follow as a judge the the law. And if I'm only to follow sentencing people or to hear cases of driving while license suspended that are progressive, cases such as driving while license suspended in the first degree or second degree, I will follow the law that is before me. I do. And so I'll give my answer to that, that I hope I answered your question. Yes, you did. And I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing me to deviate from the script there. I'm happy to do it with the other two as well. And we'll look forward to that. Okay. Further questions. Instilling you trust this in part in your last response. But let me even be more direct in the question. Please describe your efforts to implement anti-racist and equity and social justice practices within the criminal justice system. Thanks so much. Very briefly, when I was the lead attorney in juvenile drug court, I worked collaboratively with the prosecutor to restructure policies, specifically sanctions and drug court for violations and whether someone was terminated from the drug court program. I also worked with the drug court team to implement evidence based interventions and supports to make sure that the youth who came before the youth who were part of that program had culturally appropriate services. I have read many studies and been educated through national drug court trainings for juveniles and adults of the importance of culturally appropriate service providers. And so I have done that type of work. Also, I've been part of the King County Public Defense Office addressing social and equity issues through working very briefly on videos that were made that were made, addressing youth rights when stopped by law enforcement. I've also taken part in cultural competency trainings, and I've educated myself through the National Judicial College on implicit bias that I may have and also that a court potentially could occur in the courtroom. As you know, the district court and the superior court uses the video to educate jurors on implicit bias. And those conversations during the voir dire process are conversations that the jurors seem to really enjoy and the lawyers seem to enjoy. So I'll keep my comments brief. Thank you. And with that, I would suggest that is our last question and ask you to share your closing comments with us. Thank you so much. I'll keep it really brief. In my opening, I talked about why my personal experiences, values and unique perspective will enhance the district court bench. I've served as a judge pro tem for the last three years. It's been a rewarding, challenging and enriching experience. I've averaged sitting as a judge pro tem for 2 to 3 days a week during the pandemic when other judges may not have been able to serve. I was able to serve for weeks at a time. I've earned the respect of the judges, the clerks. I take any guidance they give me. I asked the judge. I asked the clerks after every calendar, is there anything that I could have done that would have helped your job or would have efficiently made the calendar more efficient? I have a reputation for honesty, integrity and fairness. What this what the position entails at this point, it's somebody who's able to step in from day one and handle the work of the district court. I am I am able to handle that work. I'm also guided by my values of public service. And what I want you all to know is that I understand that this position is a position of public trust. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate your continued interest in this record, your conversation with us today. And thank you so much for spending the time with us. Thank you. Madam Clerk. It can if you can move Dylan to the waiting room and Miss Cruise. Into the main room. MSC Cruises. Ready for you, Mr. Chair. Great. Welcome. Good. Good. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning and welcome. Really appreciate your joining us today, your interest in this record. I mean, serving on the bench and well aware that the application process is a substantial undertaking in and of itself. And we're really glad you're here with us to answers engages in the conversation really about the position. We're shooting for about 20 minutes I'd asked you to well time the opening and closing but 2 minutes. But we'd ask you to just be mindful of being concise. I think we have about four questions in between the opening and closing. Now, it will rotate through members and look forward to the conversation. And with that, I'll begin by asking you for your opening. Okay. And good morning, ladies and gentlemen, council members. It is a pleasure and an honor to be before you today and to be considered for the appointment to King County District Court Judge in the West Division. My name is Jennifer Kruse and I am a lifelong member of the West Division. I was born and raised here in Seattle, Washington, in the Rainier Valley, and I came from modest means. My father immigrated to the United States when he was only 18 years old in 1929 at the height of the Great Depression. So he was quite a bit older when he had me. He was about 60 years old, and he worked as a migrant farmer. He worked out tending crops and moving. As the seasons became colder, he would go to Alaska and he would fish there. And so from him, I learned that there is a strong work ethic, because that's one of the things that he instilled in me, is that it was you needed to work hard for anything that you wanted to do. And so growing up, although he was not working, my mother, who was a secretary, did work and we lived in modest means. I was able to go to the University of Washington for my undergraduate education, and then I went on to Seattle University School of Law. Subsequently, I worked as a contract public defender for the last 20 some years, and it's been an honor and a pleasure to serve that community. I am a conflict public defender, meaning I don't work for an agency, but I take conflict clients, primarily felony clients. And I also do handle a number of involuntary treatment cases, people who are being treated due to mental health issues. Additionally, I have been over the last five years a pro tem judge serving throughout King County. I do serve primarily in King County District Court. However, I am also a judge in the different municipalities as a pro tem such as Kent Kirkland, Issaquah and Pedro Way. And so I am on the bench regularly, while also trying to maintain a small practice with conflict clients. And so I am very busy, but I am up to the challenge of wanting to be a district court for question. Thank you so much, Councilmember Balducci, for the first question. And Mr. Chair, and welcome. It's so good to meet you and to see you in this process. Thank you. It's nice to meet you as well. Council member about you. Thank you. So my question is, what is it about King County District Court that interests you the most? Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that question. What interests me the most about King County District Court is I'm very connected to the community. King County District Court, as you know, is the People's Court and the West District is where I grew up. I have my roots firmly planted here and I am connected with the community. Not only having grown up here and had my children attend a public school, all three of them have went to public school. Two have graduated from Garfield High School. I've been in an involved member of the PTA and all of the schools that they've attended as well as I have contributed in the community. I am a board member with the Filipino Community Center. I have helped there and it is a honor and a pleasure to help there. I work. I worked during the pandemic as a volunteer coordinator and volunteering my time to help with the food bank. And that is basically we were serving hot meals three days a week to the seniors who could not come to the senior program. Delivering bells and also delivering Foodbank items to those seniors. And being involved in the community is very important to me. And I very much see King County District Court as a people's court where people of all walks of life. That is the first time that they are appearing in court. It's usually the first experience where they're very, very anxious as to what's going to happen. A lot of people have never been before a judge before, and I feel that it is very important in terms of that position that there be people who represent what the community is like. Being a judge is not about the person, it's about the position. And that position is a position of power. And in terms of how power is distributed, I think that what needs to happen in light of everything going on these days is that there should be a reflection of the community and lived experiences for those who are in power. That way, when people come to the court, they can feel a little bit more comfortable that they see somebody with their own lived experience and it's not as intimidating. Additionally, I do believe that when there is a diversity of people who are in power that can bring about creative ways of solving a lot of the problems that are occurring in the court system. Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Lambert. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome. I would like to ask a question about the backlog and for the questions that the district court is facing a significant case backlog due to the pandemic disruptions over the past year. What steps or strategies do you think? The Court And of course, you, as the judge said, implement to expedite people's opportunity to find justice within the courtroom. Thank you, Councilmember Lambert. And as a cochairman of sitting pro tem, I have heard and seen the tremendous backlog, particularly I know in district court we are behind in terms of small claims trials. There are there's an extreme backlog with regard to people who have filed small claims, and that is essentially their way and means of resolving an issue without having to hire an attorney. If the the amount of their loss is less than the $10,000. And so a lot of people seek this court to try to help that. And unfortunately, due to COVID, these small claims trials have not been going on. I think that there is a huge backlog there as well as I know that there is a huge backlog with not only criminal trials, but with simple things such as infractions , everyday infractions that people get tickets where they are really wanting to have their day in court and have their say and figure out what really is going on in terms of strategies. I know that there has been a lot of talk about potentially adding more calendars, such as having a night court or having a weekend court. And I would be up to those challenges and I would volunteer to do night court or the weekend court. As of now, whenever someone is unavailable, has a sitting judge to serve on the Saturday calendar, the jail calendar. I regularly fill in for that role because I do feel that it's important that everyone has a chance to be heard, even if it is on the weekend. And so I think creative strategies such as that, having adding extra calendars, extra times when the courts are open and or maybe having one specific week, several specific weeks where we only hear small claims trials because we need to get moving on some of the small claims trials or having specific months even designated to catching up with criminal trials, because I know that there is a huge backlog with regard to that. And the one thing in particular is people who are in custody and their freedom is at stake. And it's been very difficult and very frustrating for a lot of people because of the fact that courts have shut down, courts have modified and courts are not in-person and there are no jurors. And so I think we all need to work together, but that there are some solutions to try to catch up and try to meet those backlogs so that we can again be a court where we are running efficiently and people are having the justice that they need done swiftly and justly. Thank you. Thank you. That's a member, Dombrowski. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And hello, Ms.. Cruz. Great to see you again. Congratulations on making it to this stage. And the process you've had is, by my count, looking at your materials, about 25 years of experience as a lawyer starting early on, as a Rule nine intern in the Seattle City Attorney's Office, doing prosecutions and working at our own prosecutor's office as a victim's advocate and DV advocate and restitution specialist. Then you worked as a staff attorney at Scrap, one of our then public defender agencies, and then of course, for a long time as a private practitioner in that line of work. And my question relates to something a little bigger than the day to day operations of the court and working in the courtroom with individual cases. And that is more on a systems basis. I wonder with all of the experience that you've had, what your views are about the system writ large, what reforms do you think might be appropriate to maybe decriminalize certain conduct and shift in cases where it might be a better outcome away from the arrest prosecuting jail model to more of a kind of a care model, a health based model, a restorative justice model, where maybe things some certain conduct doesn't even come to the court. And judges have a voice to work on behalf of the system in front of legislative bodies that the county council, the state legislature. Do you have thoughts or views if you were to receive this position or are in this position about what you might do in that capacity, if that makes sense? Yes. Yes. Well, you were correct, Councilmember Dombrowski, but in my experience as an attorney for the last 25 years, I have encountered a lot of things in the system that are challenging. They are challenging for people coming through the system, that there is a lot of disproportionality in terms of socioeconomics and racial bias. There's a lot of implicit bias. And in terms of taking all of those things and bringing them to the bench and my knowledge there, I do believe that there are other ways to handle things. There are a lot of therapeutic courts, and I know that the King County District Court does have and has started community court as well as mental health court, DUI court, veterans court. Those are all really great courts and dealing with the outside providers. I think that having that kind of a a commitment to people when we are dealing with people in the community, we're doing dealing with community providers. And then also the court can kind of bridge a gap for a lot of people. In my practice, I have found that the great majority of people I have represented are people of color, people who are not socio economically advantaged. And in terms of that, I think that there needs to be a bridge to help those people. A lot of people also have mental health issues. They have trauma that has that they may not even realize is going on. They also have addiction issues as well as just issues living day to day. And I think that in looking at the community court and some of the other restorative courts, those are very good ways of letting people know we want to fix what what we want to help you with what the underlying problem is not just taking a look and saying, well, you did something bad on this particular day, so you should go to jail. And now you owe all this money. And since you can't pay all this money, we're going to add fines on top of that. I think that that's not what we want. We need to look at it more in terms of community and how we want to deal with each other and deal with problems in the community. And I think that the community courts and the alternatives are one way to do it. Another thing that I have noticed that is of concern to me is with regard to jury selection. I talk to my clients a lot and I've gone to I've been had the pleasure of representing a lot of clients and picking juries. And one of the chief complaints that I hear from a lot of my clients are that there are no there is not a jury of their peers. And I think that that is a big problem, because as Chin County has grown and expanded and become more diverse, I think that there is an issue with regard to jury pools. I think that more education needs to be done and get. Out into the community educating people. What does it mean when you get that three sides? What? What are you supposed to do? What is it like to sit on a jury? What does that mean? How much time is it going to take? I think a lot of times there are barriers to people who want to serve on juries. I've talked to people who have said to me, well, I would love to serve on this jury, but my work doesn't pay for me to take off, even though I know that the county supplements and unfortunately the supplement that you get is a bus pass and I think maybe roughly 10 to $15 a day, which, you know, was fine. However, when somebody is working to pay their mortgage, to pay their daily expenses, that's not something that is sustainable for them. And if they have to choose, do I be do I, you know, attend this jury selection process or do I go to work? A lot of people will go to work because of the fact that personally they can't afford that. And that's unfortunate because I think that the more diverse voices we have on jury panels, the more that we are going to have do justice. I don't believe that in terms of the way that jury panels work. Now, the vast majority of people who can sit on lengthier trials and I know that this is not district court but in County Superior Court for lengthy trials, those people are people who are employed by some of the bigger companies who will pay for them their regular salary to be on jury duty, or they have a nanny or they have someone also retired. They have someone to take care of their children. They have someone that the that they have a regular, steady income where they're not forfeiting that so that they can be fully present in the jury room and really listen to what is going on. And I feel that that is such an important piece of it where we need some reform in terms of how we select jurors, how long we want jurors to be present, and then also educating the the general population that this is a very big civic duty and it's an important civic duty because people are depending on us and and their livelihood and their freedom is at stake. Really appreciate the experience and views and the work that you have done in that area. Thank you very much, Jennifer. Thank you. And my question the last question will be, please describe your efforts to implement anti-racist and equity and social justice practices within the criminal court system. Okay. Well, I have served on a number of committees. I was for several years. I was on the Washington State Diversity and Inclusion Committee through the Washington State Bar, and I still participate in some of the events that are part of that. I just was two days ago, we had an event where we welcomed the first year law students at Seattle. You and I participate in this event every year because I was part of that program when I went to Seattle. You. And that is the ARC program, which is an academic resource program, which is geared towards people who are nontraditional students, people who are people of color, people who are there part time. And I feel it is important to advocate and also to encourage those people. And so every year we have a reception for them to welcome them for their summer quarter. And we get to do a roundtable discussion with them where they can ask any questions about law school, about being a lawyer. And I am always so happy to participate in that because the one kind of message I want to convey to them is I've been an attorney for 25 years. You can do this, although it may seem daunting and that you've had other challenges just to get to law school. It is something that is worth working for and that you can do it. If I can do it, you can do it. Yes, there are struggles, but there's struggles in anything that we do. And so I think that a lot of time people need that extra support. And that's one of the ways that I have helped in terms of trying to expand the people who are attorneys. Additionally, I also participate in the mock trials, the YMC mock trials. I have sat on those. I was also when I worked for Seattle Municipal Court, I was also the co youth coordinator of Youth Court. And I think that that was a very vital piece because I feel that education is very important in terms of seeing the community and the society succeed. And Youth Court is essentially the youths being part of a trial and seeing how things work. Somebody is a defense attorney, somebody is a prosecutor. There's a defendant. There is someone who takes the form of the judge. And these are actual tickets that these individuals may have gotten. And they are also sitting as jurors. And you have you see how the court works and have them in a courtroom and see what that actually looks like. And play roles, I think is very important in terms of making sure that everyone has the access to knowledge about the law. And so that is another way that I have been working towards wanting to help the individuals and help diversity and inclusion as well as I have in the past. President of the Filipino Lawyers of Washington, where we do encourage people of Filipino descent to be attorneys. Not a lot of them had been in the past applying to law school. And we are seeing that there are more and more people now doing that. And I think that that is helpful to have that different perspective. Additionally, I have served on various other committees such as with education. When my children were in middle school and grade school, I served as the Diversity and inclusion representative for the special education program that they had. And so I try to be visible in the community. I try to participate in things that are important to me in the community and also bring the knowledge of what I have as an attorney to that so that people can visibly see that. Thank you. And if I could invite you to show your closing statement. Okay. Thank you. And so, council members, thank you so much again for this opportunity. I would be honored to be the district court judge in the West Division if you were to choose me. I would listen. I would bring my lived experiences to the bench. I would apply the law as I know it and as it is written. And I would take into consideration the needs of the people who come before me. I think that as a district court judge, it is so important to be involved in a community. I am involved in the community and will continue to be involved in the community that I live in, as well as serve on the bench and listen to the needs of the people in the community. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you so much for your interest, for joining us, for the conversation today and for sharing so much of yourself and your experience with us. We're better for it. Thank you. And, Madam Clerk, I ask you to move Ms.. Cruz back to the zoom waiting room and Ms.. Find into the foreground. Ms.. Frank is ready for you, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much. This find welcome. Thank you so much for your interest in serving on the District Court in the West Division and for the application materials that we've all received. We recognize that it is a no small undertaking just to complete the written application materials. So thank you so much for your interest in joining us today for really a conversation about the court. My hope would be that this interview might take about 20 minutes and we'll time the opening and closing in 2 minutes, time the questions. But there'll be, I believe, four questions in between the opening and closing. And if I can shoot for members and your responses to be concise, we should have no problem. I'll do my best. Thank you very much for having me. So we'll wait. And if I could ask you to go ahead and begin with your opening comments. Thank you very much. Chairman McDermott. Good morning. Thank you very much for having me. I'm honored to be here today. My name is Pauline Freund, and I grew up on the south side of Chicago. My high school was very different. I grew up in an area where I was very much in the minority was my high school was 85% black, 10% white, 5% Asian, Pacific Islander and Latina. My dad was born in Romania. He survived the Holocaust and the Soviet invasion before leaving the country. My mom's childhood was also equally traumatic for my family dynamic reasons, but she succeeded and got a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago back in the sixties. And I like to say we got it together because she was eight months pregnant with me at the time. They instilled in us a love of learning, a strong word, work ethic and duty to use our privileges to the benefit of all of society. My husband and I moved here about 28 years ago. We loved the area, the mountains, the Puget Sound, a vibrant, diverse community. We moved to Beacon Hill 26 years ago. I'm active in the community, volunteered in all of my kid's schools, helped design the beautiful Jefferson Park. During the pandemic, I delivered meals to seniors through the Southeast Seattle Senior Center, and my highlight is coaching mock trial for Franklin High School. We have an incredibly diverse team in every way you can possibly imagine. I love to particularly to work with the new kids and watch them go from being a deer in headlights, staring at the hearsay rule to confidently standing up and objecting to violations. I came to the law a little bit later in life. I actually had a slew of hourly wage jobs after college, and I then worked as an electrician on movies and TV shows, and I even have a screen credit as a busboy slash girl. But when we were pregnant, when I was pregnant, my third child, we had a battle with our insurance company. And our birthing choice is at the one minute one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If you want to wrap up your thought. Okay. And I do a lot of legal research and took the LSAT and started law school when she was ten months old. And ended up graduating from high school magna cum laude despite having three small kids at home. I started working with the King County Prosecutor's Office, but during that I was a contract employee and during it was 28 and the economic collapse happened and we were laying off prosecutors. So I had no hope of being hired there and then went on to federal aid, where I served as the domestic violence prosecutor for seven and a half years. There I gained an appreciation for people as real whole, complex people. For the past three years, I've been a full time program judge and in ten different municipal courts and King County District Court. I'm drawn on all my experiences in and out of court to be the best judge I possibly can. I strive to be just equitable and find practical solutions to the problems facing people. I believe that I'm better serving my community as a judge than as a litigant. And for that reason I'm asking that you select me for the appointment to the West Division. Thank you. I'm Councilmember Belden, Chief, for the first question. Thank you. It's very nice to meet you. I thank you for participating in this process. Thank you. It's lovely to meet you as well. My question for you is, what is it about King County District Court that interests you the most? Well, I have a lot of experience with King County District Court. I'm there on average. I'm going to say two days a week. Some of my favorite judges are there. My favorite clerks are there. And I just love the ethos of the court. I think it lines up with my own interests. The Specialty Courts, Veterans Court Down DUI Court, Rustic Violence Court are wonderful opportunities for people to address their underlying issues rather than in a way that's more focused on what their actual issues are, rather than in a sort of cookie cutter one size fits all stance. And I think that I feel very at home there. I love to call it home. Councilmember Lambert. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mine has to do with the backlog created by the pandemic. So this court is facing a significant case backlog. Due to the pandemic disruptions over the last year. What steps or strategies do you think the courts and you as a judge should implement to expedite people's opportunity to find justice within the courtroom? Well, first of all, I want to say I don't think that all of the things that the pandemic has wrought on the court have been negative. The introduction of Zoom is a fabulous thing. It really increases access to justice for people who can't get to court. If you're working full time, you don't have to take a whole day off work just to make that three minute court appearance that you're going to have. You can zoom in for it during your break. I've seen that happen many times. We had people stuck across the country in the beginning of the pandemic and they were still able to make their court appearances. I even had people outside the country, one gentleman who had been deported and was in Mexico, and one way in his path to getting back into the country was to deal with the warrant he had in King County District Court, and he was able to zoom in for that hearing. Additionally, all the safety measures that are now in place, the the the plexiglass barriers that are around everybody and cleaning, I think have really cut down on disease in general. I mean, I think I don't know about you guys, but I certainly enjoyed not being sick all winter. And I think that can help also with things like Mersa and tuberculosis, which are also chronic in the court. To address your question more specifically with the backlog. I know there's also and it's my understanding anyway, that there's King County is about to dump a whole bunch of cases on the court that they've been holding on to for sort of the lesser offenses. Superior Court is bringing back retired judges to help handle their back load of trials. And I think that's something district court may want to look at as well. I know there would be a shortage of courtrooms, but perhaps we can also use some of the strategies the Superior Court is using and move them into conference centers or other locations. Some of the courts I've been in, I've done a couple of trials during the pandemic in other jurisdictions and we've had some interesting strategies. Zoom voir dire is, but the jury selection has been very successful using the actual courtroom as the jury room rather than putting people in a smaller room. And everybody just leaves the courtroom, turns the recording system on such that the courtroom can be the jury room for deliberations and for breaks. So I think there are more strategies that we can look at. It's going to depend a lot on what King County chooses to do with all those cases, and maybe a lot of them will be amended. I'm also concerned a little bit with the changes in the controlled substance laws and now making simple possession a misdemeanor that may increase the volume as well. So we'll have to see how that plays out. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Dombroski. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And Mr. Brine, thank you so much for applying and for your answers today. It's been very helpful. Thank you so much for having me. It's fair to do math here online, but I think you've been practicing a law for looks like maybe 18, 19 years and have had. 15. 15. Okay. There we go. I shouldn't do math. Well, you've had a lot of varied experience, including externship for then Superior Court Judge Mary. You and the King County system. You've done some non criminal work in a long practice, as you mentioned in your opening as the DB prosecutor for Federal Way. And you've done some pro bono or not pro bono, but pro tem work as a as a judge. So you've kind of seen the system. And my question is, based on that experience in our system for so long, do you if you were to be appointed to the bench, you'd obviously be running a courtroom. But judges have a bigger voice as well to help policymakers on system reforms. And there is a movement that says maybe we then maybe there's conduct that shouldn't be criminalized. Maybe our system of arrest, prosecute in jail is not the most effective either from a cost or outcomes perspective. And maybe we there are certain instances of conduct that should be treated with a care model, maybe outside the courts even. I'm wondering, based on your experience, if you have views on that area and what, if anything, you might do as a district court judge to bring reforms to our criminal legal system to achieve better outcomes at lower costs? Well, that's an interesting question. And some of the changes that came with the change in the controlled substances laws. Require at least two opportunities at diversion prior to having a case file and the changes to RTW 7124 require that treatment be low barrier person centered informed by people with lived experience and culturally and linguistically appropriate. And I think that low barrier aspect is perhaps the most important. I fully believe that substance abuse disorder is a disease. We know for a fact that it changes brain chemistry and brain function, and people who are actively in the middle of withdrawal are going to make terrible decisions to try and make that go away. We need to treat it as a disease and not as a moral failing. And honestly, I know that Oregon has decriminalized simple possession and we seem to be moving in that direction. We've done it with marijuana. We've now minimized the penalty for simple possession. And I would hope in the long run that the court that the legislature decides to do to follow Oregon's example. Until that happens, we could partnership more strongly with programs like the LEAD program and the REACH program and some of the other programs that are drug diversion options. I was thinking, and this is one of the frustrating things about being a pro tem, is that you can't affect court structure. You can't start programs. I mean, you're just a felon. And this is why I want to be a judge. With the change bumping simple misdemeanor, simple possession down to a misdemeanor, I think it may be time for district court to created a drug diversion court like the one in superior court and models like that that can help people find a way out of their charges with the result, the end result being that the charge gets dismissed if you make it to the end. Substance use disorder is not a crime. It leads to criminal behavior. And that's what needs to be addressed. I think that answers your question. Yeah, it does. And I really appreciate your perspective on it and the experience you bring to the issues. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. And for what I believe is our last question. Please describe your efforts to implement anti-racist and equity and social justice practices in the criminal legal system. I work with. I try actually, I consider that such an effort in the sense that the members of our team are every single race. We have a student right now, the woman of color who's at Yale Law. We would bring our kids into court. We would borrow courts from Superior Court on Friday nights and have our scrimmages there. So our kids became comfortable on the court based on the court that the whole courthouse is their building. They got to know some judges. They knew a bunch of lawyers, including one who's a partner at Perkins. But they sat on the bench. They sat at the tables and they became familiar with the system, like how a trial moves forward. And these are not little things to take away at the end of of even if they don't go on to law school . I think it gave them a sense of the court as can be a positive place for them, not just a scary place in court. I do my best to honor everyone's personal pronouns, to honor everyone's language and make sure they have an interpreter. Make sure they have representation. I would encourage people of color apart from different, differently abled, whatever that. The spectrum of people in our community should also be comfortable in court, and I would encourage them. To follow up with the courts for something other than, you know, not being brought in. But to see it also as their home. One of my favorite things to do in district court you don't get to do in municipal court so much is name changes. And right now, the overwhelming majority of them are transgender people, changing their name to a chosen name that reflects their their gender. And it's just so heartwarming to me. It's one thing. It's one of the happy things that happens in court. But they're just so happy. It's such a relief to finally have the name that reflects who they are. I had one woman who I had originally done her name change in South Carolina and going through the process. She said it was absolutely traumatic. They insisted on referring to her gender assigned at birth throughout the entire process until the name change was finalized and they actually made a typo. And that's what she was correcting in King County. And she was just in tears at the end, just so relieved to have a positive experience and moved her to a confirm who she was. And I would I strive at all times to be as inclusive and following the principles of equity, not just equality in my work. I saw a wonderful cartoon that had the first panel showed equality, and it had three people at a fence, each on the same sized block, and the first person could comfortably see over the fence. The next person had it at eye level and the third person couldn't see anything. The next panel showed equity, which had them all on different sized blocks that kept them all comfortably over the fence. And they could see. And we need to employ those same principles and that that means meeting people where they are and figuring out what they need to succeed. And I try to employ those principles at all time when I'm in court, no matter which side of the bench I'm on. Thank you very much. And I invite you to share your closing comments with us. I want to thank you again for having me today. This is it's got it's stressful, but it's been really nice to talk to you all. I think you've gotten to know me a little bit more beyond what I am on paper. I believe I have the knowledge, the drive and the passion to be the judge that you want to have on King County District Court. All the bar associations that have rated me have rated me exceptionally well qualified. I know all of the systems in King County District Court, including the new court system, and I can be up and running on day one. People's first experience with the court needs to be. I mean, they can come in for anything, whether it's a traffic ticket or a DUI or a name change. They deserve to have their day in court with understanding, respect and due process. And I mean due process in the broadest possible sense in that whatever is most equitable for their situation, that's how it needs to be addressed. I hope I. I tried to be a cheerleader as much as possible for everyone in court, and I'm in their corner. I want to celebrate the small successes, even if it's just something as simple as making it to court. A lot of people don't have a sense of agency, don't even know how to get things done. They say we order them to do X, Y and Z, and they're like, I don't even know how to start with X , Y and Z. I even know who I talk to about X, Y, and Z. So instead I'm just going to hide under a rock and we need to break it down into small pieces and bring them into court and celebrate the tiny little pieces that they can get done. Because if they feel like they can get one little thing done, maybe they can get the next thing done, too. That being said, if there's a hard decision that needs making, I'm comfortable doing that too. I have a reputation for fairness, and I prized that above everything else. I have courts where prosecutors and defense attorneys have both requested that I be the pro tem. They both believe that I'm fair. On the other hand, I've also, I think, pissed off prosecutors and defense attorneys just about equally. As I said, protons can't affect current policy. They can't start new programs. And I want an opportunity to make that impact. And I'm honored and humbled today before you and I ask that you select me for the open position. Thank you. Just fine. Thank you very much for sharing your experience and more about who you are and what you what you would bring to the position with us today in this conversation. We're richer for it and appreciate your interest. Thank you. And with that, Madam Clerk, I'd invite you to bring the other two candidates in from the waiting room. And then members. Is there an interest in having some consideration in executive session? Then the committee will. Being executive session under the purpose for executive session is under CW. 4231 ten each going into executive session to evaluate the qualifications of the candidate for appointment to elective office. The the committee will be in executive session for approximately 15 minutes until about 1150. Councilmember DEMBOSKY I'm doing math on TV again. The committee will be off this zoom call for executive session, together with only those county employees directly necessary for the discussion. Thank you so much. Members and I want to ask you to navigate to the executive session. The meeting. We will return here following an executive session. And regarding the vacancy in the West District of Kim County District Court. Motion before us would be 2021 266. Mr. Chair, as your Vice-Chair, I would like to amend the underlying motion and insert the name Gender Dillon as the Council's appointee for this particular position. Thank you. Councilmember Dunn has moved. We cannot do pass recommendation the motion 2021 266. And amended. Offered a verbal amendment that we add and call gender Dillon's name as the appointed appointee. Discussion. Councilmember Dunn. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, let me say this is an excellent group or cluster of fantastic candidates here today. And and any any one of them, I think, could have done the job. And what I see here historically is that maybe it takes a time or two in the process if you're coming through before may be the right fit and the right position at the right time with the right level of experience. And I think we see that with Ms.. Dylan here today. I would encourage the other candidates to continue their interest as there are additional vacancies that have come up and can go to District Court, two more than I am now aware of. So stay involved, stay engaged, continue that long serving commitment to justice in your community. But with respect to what's going on, she's an excellent and well-rounded candidate for this position. She impressed me the last time she came before this committee and I think did very, very well today. And I encourage my colleagues to vote yes. In appointing her to the district court bench. Thank you. Thank you for the discussion. I want to on my own behalf, I want to underscore Councilmember Dunn said we had three very engaging, robust conversations with people who are committed to the strong operation administration of our criminal and civil legal systems and doing their best to instill justice into those systems and would encourage, while we make one choice for one vacant seat today, would encourage more frightened admins crews to look to other opportunities to to apply and serve the people of King County in District Court. You clearly bring passion and interest to this work that would serve the people well. Mr.. Allen We've again had an engaging conversation with you today and really value the the passion, experience and work you would bring to District Court. Further discussion. Councilmember Dombroski Famous Chair I'm pleased to support the motion to amend the motion here for this deadline, and I want to compliment her on her very strong background and package packaging materials. And sometimes we know that it takes a couple of times through this. I wish there were three openings because we've got three qualified candidates. Ms.. Cruz, I want to say your roots in community and your commitment to community are impressive to me, and I hope that soon we'll be able to appoint the first Filipina to the King County District Court. And we really hope that we'll see you again on the next round. And a miss friend. I just want to say that your interview today really resonated with me, your sincere commitment to treating people in your courtroom when you're protecting that respect and dignity and honoring who they are as individuals. That moved me emotionally, and I want to see you back hopefully before us on one of these if you're willing to continue to serve. So I'm trying to give a little bit of hope to those who are not selecting today, but with good basis. Thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Chair, to participate in this process again. Any further discussion. All those in favor of the verbal amendment offered by councilmember dunn placing the five most thing i. I. I opposed nay. The ayes have it. The amendment is adopted. We have the motion 2021 266 as amended before us. Further discussion. Urge your support. With that. Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilmember Banducci, I. Councilmember DEMBOSKY, I. Councilmember Dunn. All right. Councilmember Coles, I. Councilmember Lambert. I have. Councilmember after the. Hi. Councilmember Bond right there. I. Council members online. I. Mr. Chair. Hi. Mr. Chair. The vote is 19 as journalists. Thank you. By your vote, we have given in to pass recommendation the motion 2021 266 as amended and with members consent. We will expedite that to full council and place that on the consent agenda. So it would be on the consent agenda, on Tuesday's Council agenda. I'm seeing no objection. That's what we shall do. Madam Clerk, I don't believe anybody missed any votes in full council in the committee of the whole today. That is correct, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Then with that, we have completed our business today. I want to thank everyone for participating. And with that, we are adjourned.