Consider Reviewing and Updating the Rules of Order for City Council Agendas and Meetings.  (Councilmember Matarrese) [Not heard on April 18, 2017]
Right. All those in favor. I motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. And I really appreciate the community's efforts and staffs to continue this massive project and policy. All right. Next nine e. Consider reviewing and updating the rules of order for city council agendas and meetings. It was placed on the agenda of council member. Okay. As as with head to toe in a role. I want to finish this one quickly. Actually, this came to my mind after having gone through the two meetings that are referenced in the referral, the referral list request that we consider appointing a subcommittee of our members or tasking the Open Government Committee to review the rules of order. Of the city council. And the reason I think this is important is because we had a couple of meetings, the workshop on the 17th and then the meeting of March 7th, where there was confusion over. How people should be allowed to speak and what were what are basically what are the rules of addressing the council and even among the council themselves? And I received from the city clerk on request the resolutions that pertain to rules of order. And there are some very interesting items in these referrals. I mean, in these resolutions, including. For example, the power of the council to either allow speakers to address the council or anyone else other than the council to address the council during deliberations. That's a council decision according to one of these resolutions. There's also a three minute limit on council members in the deliberations. So it's there are some interesting things, and I think there's also interesting rules around. The limitations of a speaker to address the council and items four and eight. According to the way I read this, it could be read that they could speak on anything they want, including an item that's further agenda. I think it's good to review these and to see if they need to be updated, but just for public awareness . Additionally, there seems to be a gap in and this comes up periodically when there's a very contentious issue is how the agenda is put together and who has responsibility for it. It's really not defined anywhere, clearly, either in the charter or in the rules of order. So I think those are important enough to do whether they're to this, I don't think this is a high priority. I definitely think we should have it looked at and I think a disinterest as I read reread my referral, which was written in March. I think it would be a good task for our Open Government Committee to do as a as a as a, I could say, disinterested party, but a party that's interested in making sure that government is is clear and understandable to to us as well as the public. Let's go next to Russia. I think you raised some good points. Council member matter. I, I would want the both the city attorney's office and the city clerk's office involved in. Any review because I want to make sure that we are I mean, at some point, it might be appropriate to have the Open Government Committee take a look at this. But I want to make sure that we are up to date on all the applicable laws and rules. And I think that the city attorney's office in the city clerk's office are a great place to start, unless they are the last stop before it comes back to us. But in any event, I do think I would want to hear. From. Both of those departments. Me too. And Brody. I mean, again, I thank you for for doing this. I think this is something that's sorely needed for the reasons you mentioned Councilmember Meter, S.C. But also, I think, you know, the public seems to be more cognizant of the length of our meeting times and maybe the quality of our interactions, which with each other. So, I mean, I think if if we could find a way to improve that, I think that would that would be helpful. I mean, I think we all, myself included, we need to look in the mirror on a lot of those things. So and I wonder if maybe having a subcommittee of the council might be more fruitful than having the Sunshine Committee look at it. But I do agree with my other colleagues comments at the city clerk and city attorney should be involved and they don't seem to have a lot of things on this list. So I'd be I would be happy to, you know, participate with any one of the four of you on the subcommittee. I would be happy to participate with you. Councilmember Brody. My preference is to go to vice mayor. Sorry. You know, one thing I do want to be cognizant of. Why do you think it's important that we get updates if there's any other laws or potential conflicts? I would want to be cognizant to make sure that we're not trying to censor or, you know, kind of sway the Open Government Committee in terms of making a decision. So while I would like to hear from our city attorney and our city clerk on that process or if there's any potential conflicts or issues in conflicts, I just I think we just need to be very cognizant of that because we are talking about, you know, the public's ability to communicate with the council and also are making sure that we're as transparent as possible. Not that I think that our city attorney or city clerk would intentionally do either of those things. I just think we need to be cognizant in terms of how we set that up so that there isn't a perception of that. The other thing is, you know, there isn't really a limit for staff time in terms of presentations. And while I think it's really helpful to have the presentations that we get, some of them have been incredibly long, especially when we have very heavy agendas. And so I don't know if that's something else that can be considered or looked at in terms of are we really allocating the correct amount of time for the presentations? And is, you know, you know, have we been consistent when we say something is 30 minutes or 90 minutes? Have we really been hitting those marks with regards to different agenda items? Because I think part of it is also having the public be able to plan for when different items are going to be heard so that they can look at the agenda and make a time estimate for what time they think the item is going to actually be heard. But I think looking into this is a good idea. We're Ashcroft. Thank you, Mayor. So censorship was certainly nothing the farthest thing from my mind. I want to make sure that applicable laws are brought to bear. We have heard suggestions in the not too distant past about the Brown Act. Perhaps doesn't need to apply at city council meetings. And that's that's California law. So that's that's where I was going with that. I would like to piggyback on the vice mayor's comment about the length of staff reports. And I don't so much fault staff, but I think we could give it direction maybe through our city manager that obviously the council comes to the council meetings prepared. We read our materials we have through the Sunshine Ordinance, the requirement that packets go out 12 days in advance. So members of the public who are interested are going to get that material too. So nobody needs to be spoon fed. And on balance, I think the public and you're right, Mr. City, we've heard from the public that they don't like being out until one or two in the morning and actually either do we. And so that we could like tonight, I thought was an excellent example. We had the two Business Improvement Association presentations. They went quickly staff. I mean, council asked their questions. We had a little discussion and we voted and we should be able to do that every time. I think that's something to also be cognizant of. But and I would just reiterate that I would be happy to work with my colleague, council member OTI, if the council, whoever else. Yeah, I'd like to work with you. Vice Mayor. And I. While I appreciate my colleague's desire to have a subcommittee, I think my preference would be to have it go to the Open Government Committee just so that we have that kind of independent check and we can have have them have a hearing on it and get the public input. That's just that would be my preference. I appreciate the comments of my colleagues. I am not supportive of a subcommittee. I think that we have commissions and one of them is our open government and I think this is appropriately theirs to lead. And then it goes through them. They have meetings and then it comes to us eventually. So I would be supportive of going utilizing that commission. And and one issue that has come up is the order of items on the agenda, for instance, referrals. And I would entertain looking at the order and possibly moving them to the front. But looking at the order of the agenda items and, you know, I think that should be something that the Open Government Committee looks at first. So we have. Did someone want to make a motion of how they like to handle this? I wonder if and again, feel free to disagree. I mean, some of these items, you know, the Brown Act, the way the agenda is written, who gets to talk where? I mean, I think that was all I recall correctly, part of the Sunshine Ordinance. So that may be well within their purview. But I think the way that the council conducts meetings and the suggestion by Councilmember Ashcraft about, you know, staff presentation time, I mean, I do think. We as a council would benefit from some introspection on our own on how we could make our meetings move a little more effectively and more efficiently. So, I mean, maybe there's a way to split the baby and, you know, send some stuff to the to the Open Government Commission and maybe have a different a smaller subset of those items, you know, kind of talked about in council because ultimately, you know, the things that control our behavior I think are best generated from from ourselves. But that's just my thought. So I'd like to hear from staff. Sir, do you have any suggestions of how you think it should be handled? Well, from the staff perspective, we are already talking internally about how to streamline our staff reports and presentations and making that assumption, as Councilmember Ashcroft said about every council member will read the staff reports and the presentations, and it's a longer time than most other cities. So it will be. Shorter than, or at least we're working on making it shorter. But there are some very meaty things that require the transparency, like the budget coming up. The council asked for a special meeting on the budget. That will be detailed because even if you look at the numbers on the page, you're the story behind the numbers is two volumes to just put in writing and so that kind of stuff. I hope the Council will allow for a more detailed conversation as far as why, whether it goes to the Sunshine Committee or not. I think. Dividing that up since we have a new grandfather on the. Sorry. I was going to say we were only giggling because that analogy about splitting the baby to a brand new grandfather. So. Granddaughter but. Tied up a task to have the subcommittee and. But I still want to support his subcommittee because I think that it's like, okay, who's going to want to be on it? If you want to have issues, come back to the council, then my preference would be to have it come to council the items and then we can all weigh in if because if we're really looking for it, say this to a member already, if we're really looking for a discussion of how we want to what we think is appropriate behavior, how we, you know, our input and I think it's appropriate to have that come so we could hear from all of us. I don't have to be on the committee. So I mean, I just volunteered, but. Go to the city manager's point. I mean, I appreciate that contribution, you know, to the staff side. And there is items like the, you know, the different rent things we had to go through in the budget. That will take a lot of detailed time. And I think the public and the council understands that. But, you know, there's there's a side that this council, I think, needs to take a look at. And, you know, you can't prescribe that. I don't think the Sunshine Committee can prescribe that. I don't think any of the staff members can prescribe it. And I think that has to come, you know, organically from us. And, you know, I'll step aside from volunteering if others want to do it. But, you know, I, I do think that it requires some in-depth analysis and introspection, you know, whoever the members of the committee are. So I'm actually supportive of the committee. I want the introspection of all of this, if that's what the concern is. So as mayor. So perhaps we could have some sort of report back about how our meetings have been, you know, how many meetings have gone past 11:00? How many items are, you know, running over in terms of the time estimates that, you know, efforts that are being made to kind of streamline different things if we could perhaps maybe agenda is that is something when we come back in September or something like that to hear and get feedback. That way, because I think there's people point to specific meetings anecdotally about will this happened at that meeting or I went to this one council meeting and this this happened, I think kind of just doing a quick review of what's gone on perhaps in the past year or so. And if, you know, if there were meetings that went over, what happened where we. Was it just a busy meeting with a lot of heavy topics that needed that level of transparency? I think perhaps, you know, having some review of of that might be helpful. I remember. When I was just going to suggest that since it was Councilmember Mattresses Council referral, perhaps he should have the last thing on the motion. He was going to be. Born after. But we're not the last thing. So I don't need to say. But I do want to say that I see no reason why we can't have a subcommittee and have the Open Government Committee both look at it because the subcommittee is on our time and. They're whoever it is, I don't need to do it. This perfectly capable of reporting back, just like the open government. And I do want to go Open Government Committee to look at it as well. So I'd say do both and and move on. I like that idea. And then my concern would be in regards to any staff time where it is in regards to the priority on this because I personally. So staff, how much time do you think this would take? Everything takes time and we have priorities for council. What's the priority on staff time? You want us? Well, the way I think the motion is, is or at least the proposed motion is not staff intensive because it has the subcommittee working on some of it and also the Open Government Committee working on it. I don't want to speak for the attorney's office or the clerk's office, but they I'm thinking that they will be resources through the Open Government Committee and respond as information is requested from that committee. So I don't think it's like the climate local climate action plan, intense work. It's more responsive to the committee, but. Well. I can just respond that the clerk and the city attorney's office both do staff the Open Government Commission. So, Madam Mayor, I would like to see this go forward in the timeframe that because like I prefaced before, this is not. High priority. I think the best thing that could happen between now and the time that the Open Government Committee gets to meet on this is that our subcommittee meets because it's on our time and that we all read these things because you'll find out some interesting stuff in here. For example, I think the council had to. We're deliberating on an open motion. Is there motion yet? I take that back. Okay. Well. Normally they're right. There's a three minute. There's a three minute. I mean. So I don't think that's the most important thing that can happen. I mean, in Oakland, they have a time limit that you're allowed as a council member for questions and deliberation. So that might be something we might want to think about. So I've said my say. You've made your motion. Oh, I'll move that we. I'm. Direct the council to appoint a subcommittee and ask the Open Government Committee to review the rules of order for government that are captured in these resolutions. And that the timing for the meeting of the Open Government Committee is scheduled within the workload of the city clerk and the city attorney. Second. All those in favor I motion carries unanimously. Who's our committee. If you decide that at this time. Let's do we do that? So did you want to leave this? He wants to be on it. I don't I don't care to be on it. I heard two people volunteer. I'm still willing to work. With you or the mayor or anyone or not. Were you were you meeting one of. Well, you said that already. So sorry. Well, some I'm hearing. So. So I don't support this part of it. Member already a member Ashcraft. Is that okay with its final menu? Yeah. Okay, then. So. So I would actually propose that the vice mayor and I do this. But you're the one who objects to this process to begin with. Because so to me, it should. My preference would be that we always include the vice mayor and the mayor and something like this. And I've actually proposed that my preference is to include all council members. However, if we're going to limit the two of us, then I then my preference would be the vice mayor and myself. But just a point of clarification, Mayor. We can't. It wouldn't be a subcommittee because we would have a problem if there were more than two. I appreciate that. So my preference would be then that it's the vice mayor and myself that if we're going to have a subcommittee. Make a motion, I. Move. Council member owning. Council member. Second. All those in favor. I. Host I oppose. And Vice mayor is abstaining. The motion. Carries a311. Council communications.