Recommendation to request City Attorney to amend Long Beach Municipal Code 10.38.020 (B) to expressly ban electric or motorized scooters, electric motorized boards (CVC 313.5), and throttle driven Class II and Class III electric bicycles (CVC 312.5), from the beach bicycle path while allowing for continued non-motorized use and lower speed pedal assisted Class I electric bicycles.
Mrs. Mongo, get ready. Yes. Thank you very much. Would you like to take the vote, please? Now we're going to move on to item 19. Motion carries. Item 19 Communication from Councilwoman Price Councilmember Pearce, Councilwoman Mongo Councilmember Your UNGA recommendation to request city attorney to amend the Long Beach Municipal Code to expressly ban electric and motorized scooters, boards and bicycles from the beach bicycle path while allowing for continued non-motorized use and lower speed pedal assisted electric bicycles. Thank you. Councilman Price. Thank you. So I want to hear my colleagues thoughts on this item before I make a motion, but I want to share with you the background of where this came from and put it into context a little bit. So I know that our public works director is here and our city manager, of course, is here. And over the last many years that we've that I've been involved, mobility has been a major issue and something that we have become a regional leader on. And I'm proud of that. I am a little bit concerned, however, that our efforts to add mobility elements throughout the city are being done in a manner that maybe isn't providing for as much input and feedback and warning as, frankly, some of the residents in our community may want. And the Scooter Pilot program is one such example. It's possible that I may have missed something along the way, but the pilot program and perhaps this is a good question for the city manager, the pilot program was kind of put on to us. It wasn't something that we voted on as a council. Is that correct? Yes, we to prevent basically the business disruption program where we have 2000 scooters dumped on us. Like many other cities across America. We implemented a pilot program to invite people to come in for a three month period. Yes. Okay. And and and I get the reasons why we did it. I just I kind of want to just factually. Establish that the council did not vote on that. It was it was correct. It was offered to us. And as such, there was no input that was gathered in terms of the parameters of such program, at least input from residents with that. That my understanding I. Wouldn't say that I think there was you know, we have our traffic engineers who work with the community and stuff and perhaps maybe not specific residents or. Community groups. But we listen to what we're hearing from residents through our mobility program and also look at what's happening in cities across America. Okay. Well, I wasn't aware of any listening tours or any discussions in the third district. And the reason I, I raised that is because we. And Michelle Mallory knows this probably all too well. We have received complaint after complaint from our residents regarding the scooters. And the biggest issue has been the discarding of the the scooters in locations that do not that are not one of the areas where scooters are supposed to be dropped off. And some of the operators, I think, maybe more responsive than others, because there are some vendors that are actually putting them away more regularly. Others are not. I'm not sure what's going on there, but there's been a lot of frustration in the community with the existence of the scooters and the lack of input in terms of traditional community input, where we have meetings and we allow people to come forth and be educated on a topic. So this item really has come about as an attempt by me and my colleagues to try to mitigate some of the impacts that are being felt by the residents now that the scooter program is on us have upon us. Having said that, I'm open to talking to my colleagues about what a potential ban could look like, even if not immediate. And let me explain that, first of all. We've heard a lot of feedback from residents regarding the motorized bicycles. And although we attempted to exclude those from the language that we had presented in the item. Class one and Class two bicycles are apparently utilized a lot in the city of Long Beach, and they're utilized by a lot of our residents of all ages. And some of our aging population has indicated that they really find them useful in terms of having mobility on the beach, which which I respect, and I certainly don't want to interfere with that. So I would if we were to move forward with this, I'd want to make sure that Class one and Class two, e-bikes or motorized bikes are permitted on the path. But what I want to ask before we move there is do we allow scooters to be on the beach path under the current pilot? Right now, electric scooters are prohibited in our missile code. We've been talking to the city attorney about altering that. We believe potentially that when this municipal code was enacted, there probably e-scooters didn't exist. They were talking about vespers, perhaps those types of those types of scooters. So this is a brand new product that wasn't envisioned. So we were, you know, on the path of potentially talking to the city council about. About this just specifically when this popped up. But right now, the electric scooters are banned on the path. And my understanding is that the pilot, the handbook for the pilot program, actually prohibits them from being on the path. Yes. Okay. So if that's the case, then why do we have the beach path as one of the heaviest use areas in the city for scooters? I think it's just a very attractive place and for the use of the scooters. And right now and I don't think that we have the resources right now to police it. Okay. And I get that. However, there is technology available that would limit those scooters from getting onto the beach path. And my understanding is that a lot of the major companies have that technology available. And so is there some is there someone on the staff that might be able to answer any questions about that? Mr. Beck. Vice Mayor, Members Council Councilmember Price. I think as discussed in your opening, the city is moving forward or is engaged in right now a pilot program with the E-SCOOTERS. It was done in a way to try to create some structure around what other serious other cities have experienced as really a haphazard deployment of scooters where it's significantly affected areas within the right of way. As a manager talked about, we wanted to avoid that in Long Beach. We did not want companies to come in and drop simply drop 2000 scooters on our streets overnight and have our staff have to run around and try to chase and collect those scooters. So we worked with various vendors. There are six companies that have been authorized to deploy under this pilot program. The current pilot program is scheduled to run through the end of October. At that time, the plan is to come to city council to talk about information that we've gained through this pilot program. One example would be, and I think I've shared this with council through our bike share program is a heat map. Staff is very interested to understand where people are picking scooters up, where they are driving to or scooting to, I guess how far they are going, what the frequency of use is, because we think that that's really going to drive some policy decisions at this council we'll have to deliberate on and decide upon. We anticipate getting all of that data from the scooter companies. That was part of their permit to be able to operate in our city. They owe us that data by the end of October. We have put them all on notice that they need to provide that to us and will be coming forward with not only that data to the Council, but also staff's recommendation, what we believe a a permanent scooter program would look like. And so things like geofencing, miles per hour limits, helmet use, areas where riding would be allowed for examples in the in the bike lanes areas were riding would be restricted would all be part of staff's recommendation that we would plan to bring forward with that report. Okay. And I appreciate that. The question I had was, are there companies that have the technology, the geofencing technology that could implement it tomorrow? If we were to direct them to do so, to keep the scooters off the beach path. I don't have that answer for you. I anticipate the answer is yes, that there are companies that can do geofencing. How long it would take them to implement that? I don't have the answer for what ability we would have to regulate that with them. I don't have the answer for that either. Okay. So when you say this pilot ends at the end of October, will the pilot then end, meaning the. Scooters will be removed. From the streets until council votes on whether or not we want a permanent program? We're discussing that as an option. We're also discussing the option where we would allow it to continue until council makes a decision on what a permanent program would look like. Do we have any money for enforcement of any of the regulations that we've placed on the pilot or would in the future? This pilot program has collected minimal amounts. I think the permitting is about $2,000. So if we have six companies, we've collected roughly $12,000 today. Is there any. And so my team has reached out to a lot of other cities that have dealt with this. As I'm sure you're aware of, Santa monica just just banned these from the beach path. What happens is when they get left on the beach path, it's a hazard for anyone who's biking. If they're in the bike lane or if it's left on the walking path, it's a hazard for those running and walking on the path and they get left there and people don't pick them up. I'm not sure what the since they're not supposed to be on the beach to begin with. I'm not sure what regular patrols these companies are doing to get them off the beach, but it's not happening, at least not with all providers consistently. No, but in but I do agree with you that we are seeing vendors that are being more responsible about collecting their scooters, and that would be part of staff's presentation at council and would go along with our recommendation. We would want to recommend vendors that have been working with the city and within the city's rules on the pilot program. Along those lines, I know there's nothing the vendor can do about this, but I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen wearing a helmet on these scooters. And as long as somebody in your group has a license, they can rent multiple scooters. And I happen to have a teenage boy who's tested that theory. So the whole having a 16 year old with a driver's license read them is not happening. So my question is, do we and in talking with some of the other cities that have scooter programs in place, one of the things we've been advised in terms of my staff reaching out and talking to individuals and me talking with my counterparts in those cities, is that should the city move forward with a permanent program? We would need to make sure that we have cost recovery sufficient to cover the cost of enforcement. Have we contemplated that? And I know that's still come back on a staff report, but that that all goes into this item tonight because I'm trying to figure out how to mitigate this impact between now and the end of October. And if I know that what's coming at the end of October would include enforcement, that could be something we factor into the equation. I think the short answer is yes, that what would come back is staff's recommendation on a more appropriate cost to operate within the city. I don't have a recommendation this evening on what that cost would look like, but I do anticipate it would be greater than the $2,000 that we've charged to date. And we are closely watching what other cities are doing. We are also watching what Sacramento is doing. And I'm sure, Councilmember, you're aware of what the governor just recently signed, where helmets are not now required for adults 21 and over who are utilizing scooters. And we find it also interesting that the governor included a miles per hour limit in that bill that he signed at 15 miles an hour, which is, as you may know, what we set in our luggage pilot program here in our city, a 15 mile an hour limit on speed. And I think that's good. That's very prudent on his part. I look, I have a question for Charlie real quick, and then Mr. Beck, I'm going to come back to you. But Mr. City Attorney, if you were if an item was to pass tonight to change the municipal code, would it come back in time to be implemented before the end of the pilot? The answer would be no. We'd have to do first reading on the 23rd. Second reading wouldn't occur until the middle of November, and then 31 days after it's signed by the mayor would go into effect. So there's really nothing that we can do tonight to mitigate impacts of the pilot because the pilot will end. I mean, there's nothing we can do in terms of a municipal code change because the pilot would end prior to us adopting the municipal code change. That's correct. But as was stated earlier, they are currently banned under the current municipal code right now. So it's an enforcement and issue that exists today. That's true. And they're specifically banned in the pilot handbook, but we're not enforcing it. So my question would be to to Mr. Beck. If we were. To ask you to investigate whether or not these six companies have the technology available to be able to preclude these scooters from going onto the bike path during the pendency of the pilot program, or until such time that the issue comes before Council for further consideration. Is that something you can come back to us with next week? And report back on? Certainly. Councilmember We can reach out to the vendors that that are working under the pilot and understand what technology they possess that would allow them to move forward and get timelines for when that would be whether we could present that at council next week. Certainly I think we could get a memo to council in roughly that timeline. Okay. And I know that we you could probably get a memo to council, but what I would ask tonight is that if that technology is available. That the city require those vendors who have that technology available to employ that technology in order to prevent scooters from getting onto the beach path. For the pendency of the pilot. Is that something that you think is feasible? Again, I would have to check with the companies on how long it would take them to implement it. But if they were able to implement it, we can certainly ask them if that's the wish of this council. Okay. And then a memo back could indicate whether they can't or they can't. Okay. Because I think that's very important. And I want to hear from my colleagues on this. But that would address many of my concerns. I know we're going to come back. Staff is going to come back with some recommendations and some data on this topic. And I'm hopeful for I'm hopeful that the report back will include things like the number of scooter related incidents we've had in the city, whether they be collisions or people tripping and falling over scooters that have been left on sidewalks. The number of scooters on the bike path that are pilot scooters, because those are the only ones that we can track. We can't track personal scooters, which can go much faster than the 15 mile per hour that we've set. The number of resident complaints we've received from scooters at city. At the city I know we've been routing them to an email address, so data on that would be really important. What other cities are doing about Beach Pass in particular? Because we want to encourage access to the beach and make it safe for all folks with various types of mobility to be on there. And how we address the cleanup issues of scooters being dumped in locations that are hard to get to like beaches. And I'm sure that's something that was heavily considered by Santa monica when they banned the scooters on their beaches. It's just for whatever reason, the the scooters that are abandoned on the beach aren't picked up as regularly as others, assuming others are picked up regularly. So with that, I'd like to hear from my colleagues. But if but if my colleagues are okay with that, my motion would be that staff reach out to the existing six vendors and determine which of them have the capability to control the scooters access to the beach path. And if they do have that technological ability that that be implemented immediately pending the the the termination of the pilot program. Thank you. Councilmember Mongo. Thank you. I think that the biggest concern that I've heard about scooters has been that they whiz by the bikers and create cut. They cut in and out, and they do this on both bike paths and park paths throughout the city. Many people know 70% of the parks are in my district. And when people want to be out on a normal bike ride and they have these little zippy scooters, and again, I'm a supporter of scooters. My office helps get scooters into the community for using for community watch all of that's great but there's a safe way to ride in an unsafe way to ride and a lot of the scooters have the ability to specifically limit their speed. And so I don't know what we can do about that. And I also think that it's important to note, at least on my side of town, most of the scooters are not the loaner scooters. While we have had loaner scooters dropped off at random places, specifically around Long Beach City College. I would say that a majority of the scooters used in our side of town are own scooters. And so figuring out and understanding and working with the providers that sell the scooters to do a better job of. Communicating to people who purchased scooters what the expectations are or if there was a scooter registering program in the city. I'm not quite sure how we get there. But then there would be some ability to provide communication on the matter related to the city policies. So I look forward to an opportunity to make it sure that. Our paths remain safe for our bikers, whether they're class one or class two bikers, and that there's some kind of leveraging of. Quite frankly, bike and scooter safety and civility. Through the process. Thank you. Yes. Mr. Olsen. Thank you very much. I want to thank the authors of this item for bringing it forward. I think it's overdue for us to have a conversation. I think it was I mentioned earlier that this was. The electric scooters were. The pilot program was initiated as an administrative action and not a council action. But however, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I'm a huge supporter of our Bike Boulevard program and active transportation modes in an effort to to to get people out of their cars and not pollute our our our. Our environment. I think these electric scooters are all Ray. Who knows what they they turn out to be and whether or not this is going to be the the the thing of the future or thing of today. I can recall just two or three years ago, you know, there was there were people lined up and they were upset over hoverboards. I don't see anybody riding hoverboards anymore. So I think I would just I'd like to see us. I'd like to see us proceed with caution on this. This particular item we just heard a great presentation from our Convention and Visitors Bureau. Our beach is one of the greatest assets that we have in the city, and I personally don't want to restrict it. I want to I want to just just touch on a couple of things. And I do respect where my colleagues are coming from. They're hearing from their constituents. This is a new phenomenon. They're probably seeing more scooter activity than in and in my district. But at the same time, people go to the beach to have a good time and have fun. I, I, um, I'm looking at the, the ordinance 10.3 8.02. It speaks to driving on sidewalks a speaks to automobiles, trucks, tractors, motorcycles or power driven scooters. So not drive on a sidewalk except at a permanent or a temporary driveway. And B, there's no operator of any motorized scooter shall drive upon any bike path on the beach or any bike path adjacent to a city marina. And so my my question for the city attorney regarding that particular ordinance. Was that in reference to the scooters, were scooters defined in 2002 as they are defined today? And the answer is no. But the section that you read, we believe, bans all those scooters until the council gives direction to amend that ordinance to clarify what, if any, electro electric type scooters you would prefer to have on the bike path or not. Own to motorized scooters. And they are probably £200. They they require gas. They are defined as scooters. These electric scooters are like razor scooters that were not were not in play in 2002. And I just want to I don't I don't feel like this this this language is speaking to that type of scooter. And I think at the time at the time it was written, it was these were not contemplated. I would certainly agree with that. I think that what we have asked for is we need clarity and direction from the council so that we can amend this section. Either way, you'd like to go on that. But currently as written, we believe that that distinction is not made when in that section. I also like to point out the fact that I was on this council when we made a very controversial decision to expand our our bike path. Right. And go from one bike path or walking path to a bike path. And that was a significant investment from our tidelands. And it was controversial, but it actually expanded capacity on our beach. And I think part of what we were seeking to do and I'm going back because I took a vote on that, but I think part of what we were seeking to do is to to expand opportunities for for for folks to use alternative transportation without impeding pedestrians. Right. It was a pedestrian safety concern. And so I think we need to be open as a council to to new modes of transportation, particularly those modes of transportation that don't emit don't emit knocks into the environment, but also just be be open minded to to to to the future, because I think that that is the future. I don't like I said, I don't know where these these moderate these these electric scooters are going to go. You know, they may be they may be obsolete in two years. But I think we need to allow the pilot program to work. I think there's a lot of information that still can be collected, a lot of feedback that we can can get from residents and stakeholders. And I would say all stakeholders, I mean, our convention and visitors bureau, I would be interested to know what their take is on this. I'd be interested, obviously, our neighborhood folks and beach goers, but we need to engage, I think are stakeholders a little bit more on this item before we move, before I can support a outright ban. Right. And that and it's. Not on the floor. But but but so did you make an amendment? Yeah. No, I made a motion to ask that the director reach out to the companies that are part of the pilot to see if they have the technology that would keep the scooters from getting on to the beach path, which is currently part of the pilot rules and regulations. They're currently not allowed to go on the beach path pursuant to the pilot program. They have a handbook that they're supposed to follow, and if they have the technology, they can they can actually cause the scooter to slow down as it approaches a particular location or stop. So the companies I've talked with that are operating here have that technology. Okay. And so I think the disconnect here is you knowing about the handbook and reading the regulations and the person who is accessing and getting a scooter, probably not getting that information is so part of this pilot program and part of the conversation that we're having here tonight. I think there can be some some good policy coming out of this possibly in the future in regards to how we educate folks throughout the city in terms of use of of electric scooters, safety and everything else that goes along with that. But I just think we're at this point, I think we're jumping the gun because it's only been a few weeks. Right. And yes, we need to be responsive to some complaints. I think you've heard from staff that they are responding and collecting data and getting taking that information in and reviewing best practices in other cities. These are things that we do when we bring in new policies. And so with that, I think there's there's some education, obviously, that needs to be done. I think we talked about, you know, massaging policy out in committee. A little bit more. I think this is an opportunity to do that. And so I'm open to hearing from from everyone else on this. But I would just just be hesitant to to jump into banning in a new a new mode of transportation that we really don't know much about at this point. Thank you, Councilman. Your anger. Thank you. You know, I have a favorite quote that I always. Use regarding change. Change is inevitable, and in a progressive society, change is constant. Benjamin Disraeli, philosopher, said that. I use it on my on my screen every now and then on my computer, just to remind me that we're always in the midst of change. And this issue here is one of those issues where change is happening as we see it. When I first signed on to this item, I was very much into what's going on in Santa monica, what's going on with a lot of other big cities regarding scooters. It's an issue up and down state because of the potentials and some of the the accidents that happen because of the irresponsible use or irresponsible operation of these of these scooters. But then again, at the same time, I could see that there's other types of of motorized or electric methods of transportation can be used on these bike trails that are very beneficial for people, especially those with mobility issues who want to have access to the beach. So access becomes an issue here in regards to people with a disability or with a mobility disability to access the beach. So I could see what the issue is here. Well, my recommendation and my my my spin on this, I guess, would be at this point is that it seems like we do have an issue with with data. I mean, we don't have enough of it. I think we still need to gather gather more. I would be especially interested in knowing. We're learning how many of those motorized scooters or bicycles that are along the bike path and especially here in Long Beach that are driven or used by people with mobility issues. I don't think we have enough of that data available. I see. So some people in the audience are raising their hands being there's three right there. Right. But, you know, we need I think we need to have more information on this. And, you know, I'm not sure that right now changing the municipal code would be the most viable path to take at this point, pun intended in regards to the. Nobody got that one. Okay. In regards to way forward with with with a full ban, I feel uncomfortable with it because obviously the information is not totally there. The maybe a question to the public works director would be, do you think that you have all the information you need right now? Do you need it? How much how much time do you think you would you would need to get to get the all the data that you would be required to make a a sound recommendation to the City Council in regards to moving this forward. Councilmember Urunga So we under the original pilot program had pointed to the end of this month, we're now in October. So the end of October we anticipate getting information from all the scooter vendors. I think the heat map and some of the things that Councilmember Price brought up about where are we seeing scooters that are dropped outside of the the pre-approved drop zones? Where are we experiencing the most complaints? What are those complaints? How are they characterized getting all that data together and bringing back to council? I anticipate doing that sometime in November at the latest early December. Okay. Well, I think that's that's good to know, because I think that we need to take our time with this and putting it through to the end of October when the end of the pilot program would be a little premature at this point. But continue the conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Councilman, you want to go? Councilwoman Pierce. Thank you. And I want to thank you. Good conversation here today. You know, originally when it was first presented to me, I thought it was just enforcing existing policies. And then I thought through our research that this was not in place. And honestly, I think the conversations are right. Conversation to have in the future probably fleshed out a little bit more before having it at the council. So I just I want to say I appreciate the conversation in my district. Our districts are so different, Suzy. Well, I haven't had complaints about the bike path in the district. I've had probably three or four of folks in our senior community that have, you know, been walking on the sidewalks and have had challenges with it just overall, but not necessarily on our beach path. And I so first, I have a question for the city attorney, as the conversation is now with the comments that Councilmember Price has made. If a yes vote tonight would not be on the recommendation that's listed in the item, it would just be to have our public our public works director work with these six businesses and to come back with with that information. But there's not an additional ban that is on the table anymore. I agree with you that the original motion has been amended. However, I think as I understood the motion, it would be to reach out to the vendors and if they have the technology available to implement that technology immediately to ban them from the bike path. So it wasn't I think, if I heard you correctly, it was a report back, but it was changed subsequently to if that technology avail is available, implement it through the remainder of the pilot program consistent with the handbook. Just for clarification, the handbook is the current existing regulations for the pilot program. So it would be if they're able to monitor the technology such that there they are in compliance with the existing regulations. I'm not asking for a ban there. Was that cleared? That's correct. There would not be a ban to any of the other type of electrical electric bikes or scooters. It just too would prohibit them from operating on the bike beach bike path for the remainder of the pilot program. If they have that capability. And I guess that that so one is thank you for that. That's been my understanding. So there's not a need to make any other changes if that's something that we're all comfortable with. My question to Public Works director would be, do we have any idea say they do have that technology if it's even possible for them to implement it in a quick turnaround? Do we know that? Councilmember I do not have that information as I sit here tonight. Okay. We will reach out to them this week and hopefully we can get quick responses and return to council, as I mentioned, with a memo and share that with all of you. Great. Okay. So just a couple of comments. As I support, you know, reaching out to them and trying to implement the technology, if that is something that is possible, I would imagine that some of them might have it and not use it unless we are actually in a binding contract with them. But I do want to say how much I appreciate having pilot programs. You know, I know that sometimes it can feel frustrating because staff goes out and does a pilot program and then the constituents call our offices. But we did a pilot program with the free ride, and I think it was a great opportunity for us to just say, okay, if this was going to happen in the open market, how would it work? What are the challenges, what are the opportunities? And I know we're working with your office to bring back that conversation so that we can look at the best way to implement it. So I appreciate being able to do pilot programs quickly. I think they operate, they identify, you know, what, we need to change in the city and don't set us up to be in a bind in relationship. So I respect that. I do want to say, as we look forward to the changes that you've mentioned being made around the scooters or bike conversation, I want to make sure that we don't create a two tiered system where if you're able to afford one type of transportation that's electric, but you're renting another one, that we're not creating opportunities where they're both not allowed to be on the same path, whether it's a bike path or whether it's a sidewalk. I also think our city's done a great job with our bikes and doing the registration with them and also having like Tony Cruise go out and do something. So I would ask that as we come back that not only are we looking at a plan and changing our policies, but that we're looking at an outreach strategy on education. So maybe we have one in each district or five throughout the city based on need and where the heat map shows us. I also wanted to ask, I think I heard a number about what makes a viable scooter program is something like three rides a day per scooter, and we're exceeding that. Is that correct? I don't have any of that data yet. I've not seen. The numbers, he told me. That number in City Hall is something like five per scooter instead of three, and I think that it just shows how excited people are. And so I want to applaud you guys for thinking outside the box on that. I support the change that Councilmember Price made to work with the vendors as possible and bring back some of those recommendations. And I look forward to a good discussion in October or November or December. Thank you, Councilwoman Pierce. Councilmember. I thank vice mayor. So just you know, this conversation gives me a few thoughts. First of all, thanks for thanks Councilmember Price for, um, you know, saying that you want to hear from the council on this because I really, I haven't spent too much time thinking on this issue. But, you know, I have some, some thoughts here. So, one, it sounds like that the problem we want to address could be twofold. One, the dumping of the dropping of the scooters in the path and to the speed of the scooters. Right. I think we need to spend some time thinking about fixing the fixing that problem. And maybe maybe we begin evaluating how to fix that problem while we're in the process of this pilot program. So one strategy that that cities and agencies are using to change behavior is pricing, right? So there could literally be a process where if you if you're a company, well, the other parties, this concept that we have about if you have the technology to geofence and get off the path, then you should come off the path. That's counterintuitive, my opinion. The better technology should be the ones that we allow on the path and the ones that do not have the technology come off the path. And the reason is because if they have the technology, what if there was a way to say, you can ride the ride, but if you drop your your scooter outside of the designated drop zone on the bike path, then you are fined. Right. Or. And that way we can use pricing to discourage the behavior potentially. And if you don't have the technology, then your scooter cannot be on the bike path if you don't have the technology. I just think we need to probably take some time in inverse and try to resolve the problem. I I'm sorry. So anyway, so I think we should look at it that way. So I would I would suggest that tonight maybe we don't say if you have the technology, get off the path. The ones with the technology are the ones I'm most interested in seeing how they behave and respond. The other parties, the pilot. We should be able to distinguish to this pilot which which of these are the good actors and which ones are the bad actors as well. And that's something we should be tracking on our on our beach path. So I think we should go through the pilot. We should have a conversation with these companies about, you know, if they have the technology and it sounds like they're doing that. But I think it should go from the we should be rewarding the better technology, rewarding the folks who are using geofencing and the ones who don't. We should be encouraging them to do so. Or maybe they don't they don't get to participate in the full program once it rolls out. Those are my thoughts. Thanks. Thank you so much. Councilwoman Gonzalez. Thank you. So I have similar thoughts as well in terms of and I want to pull back and say to that we should have definitely gotten a little bit more information on the pilot program and what it entailed, because I remember I was just really sort of shocked that they just started showing up right in front of my building. And I was like, Oh, is this a random scooter? Did someone leave their scooter? I had no idea. So it's sort of taken a lot of residents I know in downtown to back a little bit, but now we see everybody on the scooters. Well, that's just what I'm hearing from from residents. So but I see a ton of people on the scooters. So students, downtown residents. And, you know, it's it's a really good and positive thing. And I do agree I know we're going to get the data back and the analytics back between October and December. And I think that the analytics will absolutely tell us a really good story of of where people are using them. And I just know from my residents a few sample cases, some of them have told me because Long Beach transit routes were changed or removed in some areas that they now use these scooters, which I think is a really, really big deal. So I also think in addition to the data we get back, although this item doesn't call for it, is just to be a little bit heightened of a sense. And I know we are in terms of Long Beach transit routes that have been changed or removed. So we know where these are. So we know where this data will lie. I just want to clarify as well the e-bike discussion. I'm having a little trouble with that. So are we removing are we saying that we're going to allow e-bikes on the path? Well, I think for this particular item, I'm trying to narrow the discussion to just the pilot program. The pilot program for the scooters, which has a specific clause in regards to the bike beach path. So I didn't want to confuse the discussion with the e-bikes because a lot of people do use them and they're not the biggest source of concern. We have a pilot program in place that says they can't no riding on sidewalks, no riding on the bike beach path and use of a helmet at all times. So this is something that they all had to sign to agree to participate in the city. So I thought we would take the e-bike discussion out of it, since that's not really the problem and just focus on the pilot program because we don't have any way to enforce the rules that the companies already agreed to. Okay. Sure, I guess. And I understand that we want to compartmentalize and be really focused. And I would just say just over on that e-bike discussion, those can go up to 30 miles per hour. So that's another issue. I think just in terms of mobility we do need to address because although a lot of people are using them, as Councilmember Pearce said, yes, they're not rentable so much. But they you know, a lot of people a lot of people purchase them and, you know, access, I think, for many of us is a is a it's a huge point that we need to amplify because there are a lot of downtown residents that want access to the beach. And the best way to do that is to provide to be provided a cheap scooter. And so we need to look at some other facet to be able to address e-bikes at some point as well in that discussion. What I like as well. And I know that there is technology to slow down the scooters and pause in certain areas. And I while I appreciate the discussion about implementing that with the six. With the six companies we have now. There are other areas that also need to be looked at. You know, I think a lot of downtown residents, especially with senior buildings that have major mobility issues, we can't even get the bike bicycle issue sort of down, you know, and we're sitting here talking about E-Scooters on the bike that we had to pull back a little bit more and start talking about how we address enforcement on just bicycles and scooters in these very vulnerable neighborhoods. A lot of my residents in downtown and I have a lot of senior residents do not have a lot of mobility. They have had Long Beach Transit cut some routes. And now on top of that, we have this scooter discussion. So I just want us to think about that a little bit more largely, but I love the idea. Councilmember Price, about the complaint data and cleanup issues, because I think those are absolutely issues we need to start addressing a bit more. So I'm still a little weary from this. I'm going to I'm going to listen to a few more people. But those are sort of just my thoughts preliminarily. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councilwoman Soprano. Thank you. Just to follow up on the last comments. If there's some mission creep here, I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to talk about Cal State, Long Beach, but it occurs to me that there's an immediate public safety need on the bike path, and it'd be nice if we could get that resolved here tonight . But that was kind of an unintended consequence, something that was anticipated by Cal State Long Beach before, as soon as the scooters showed up, is that they would be blamed for students riding them into the neighborhood. So we have an elaborate preferential parking district system north of the campus along Atherton. I believe it's a total of 18 north south streets have preferential parking. For the scooters to be lined up on the perimeter on Atherton of the school. You could not have invented a better system to screw up a preference of parking, because now you extend that distance that people can go can drop off their cars. So you're just going to anger the folks who are just north of the Préfecture parking district. So as I said, Mr. Beck, I don't want to get into mission creep here, but if that can be on your radar, also, if we're talking about some type of system where they can electronic electronically monitor that or prevent them from going to certain areas, that would be helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Congressman Stupak. Now, Councilwoman Pryce. I believe Council on Super now that they can. We're certainly not the first city to be dealing with this. And I know that there are cities that have limited access to certain areas. I just want to clarify, because I heard several of my colleagues say they're not going to support the item because it's a ban. So I started off my comments with saying, let's move away from the ban and enforce try to enforce our current existing policy, which all six of the providers had to sign, which has five provisions that they have to follow. They have to educate the consumer that they need to be 18 years old, must be in possession of a valid driver's license, must agree to the liability waiver. Covering the city of Long Beach contained in the vendor's end user agreement, must agree to comply with the California Vehicle Code and Long Beach Municipal Code, which shall be provided by the vendor to all users prior to use of the scooters. Notification of laws should emphasize the following No riding on sidewalks, no riding on the beach path and use of a helmet at all times, and may only park scooters outside of the sidewalk path of travel, allowing a minimum of four feet of clearance and compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Americans with Disabilities Act. So these are rules that and everyone here is right. We were not consulted when the handbook was created. So a lot of the things we're talking about we didn't have a policy decision on. What I'm asking my colleagues to do is for the remaining next three weeks, can we try to hold the companies accountable such that the scooters don't end up on a prohibited area if the technology for that company allows it? If after that, we want to allow it and we want that to not be a perhaps prohibited area anymore, we can have that discussion. We can absolutely have that discussion and say, you know, what the of the rules and regulations and the pilot program didn't make sense. I don't like them. I want them on the beach path. But right now they're not allowed on the beach path. So I and and Councilwoman Pearce hasn't received these complaints. We've received a lot of them. And what we hear is, why can't you enforce this? Why aren't you enforcing this? And the reality is because we don't have police officers to have standing on the beach path enforcing these rules. But we do have technology. And I've checked I know at least one of the vendors, Bird, has the technology available now. They can implement it tomorrow to allow the the the the scooters to not go on the bike path. So I think, you know, what I'm asking my my colleagues to do is support our director reaching out and saying, if your company has the technology, please prohibit the scooters from going on the beach path, as you've agreed to do by signing on to our pilot. I'm hearing some resistance to that. I'm not exactly sure what the basis of the resistance is, other than what I'm hearing is that maybe people don't like the existing policy that prohibits them from being on the beach path, which I didn't write the policy. I'm just trying to figure out a way to enforce it. If people don't like that and they feel more comfortable, I would be open to a report back from the director on what of the companies have the geofencing technology that they could implement. But remember, the pilot ends at the end of October and we have folks that have expressed a lot of concern about us not enforcing our own agreement with these vendors. We we entered this agreement with these vendors, and we have the ability to force them to comply. And what we would be saying is, no, no, no, it's okay. Feel free to violate the terms of your agreement. We're not going to hold you accountable to it. So I'm open to hearing from my colleagues. I'm advocating on behalf of my residents at this point, and I'm asking for your support. But I'm also very, very open to any suggestions folks have on I mean, I understand the tenor of what folks are saying here, which is maybe you're not seeing a problem with it on the beach path and you're okay with them being on the beach path. And if that's what you're saying, I hope that you'll be very clear about that, because I know when I go back to my communities, I'd like to say these of my colleagues did not have an issue with this, because I do because the issue is presented a safety hazard in on the beach path. So I would like us to do whatever we can to adhere to our current policy and contract if folks would like to do a study instead. Totally okay with that as well. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councilwoman Price. Councilman, also. Thank you, Councilmember Price. And I, like I said earlier, I do I do respect your position. I understand I'm not getting the calls from my constituents. I try to go down to the beach as much as possible. And for me, it hasn't been a hazardous. So seeing these electric scooters on here and as I mentioned in my comments earlier, I prefer a less restrictive model as opposed to creating restrictions for them. The the regulations that that you you mentioned were administrative in nature. They weren't legislative. Again, it wasn't something policy that the council developed. I think it was, you know, staff trying to do their best to come up with something to get this this this new transportation system or mode implemented into our city quickly. And so, I mean, I commend them for the work that they did. But, you know, again, this is this is an evolving issue. Just since we've implemented here within the last several weeks, there's been legislation in Sacramento regarding these these these electric scooters. And I would venture to say that over the next several months or a few months, we're going to see a lot of new ideas and possibly even some some best practices from other municipalities where they're dealing with them and these issues. And so I would I would offer a friendly to the stroke staff to do exactly what you suggested. But I also would recommend that this issue be studied further in committee. I think there might be two committees that that would be appropriate public safety and then Infrastructure and Transportation, Transportation Infrastructure Committee. I would recommend, if you're open to a friendly amendment that these these these committees also study these issues, this issue concurrently to to hopefully get to a place where we can develop some sound public policy. Kept that friendly. I think that's an excellent suggestion and I would recommend it go to the Transportation Committee because our public safety committee meeting is pretty packed for next week. So I don't want to add to our agenda and I know that committee, I'm not sure how often they meet, but this would be the perfect issue for them to take up. Thank you. Kind of if they're open to it. Councilwoman Pierce. Thank you. And Councilmember Alston, I perfect. I think that that's where we needed to land. I do think I know that there's there's agreement is out there. I know that we've shared it with our constituents just in the first week that these were implemented. And so if we can maybe share that one more time, the agreement that we had with all six vendors so that the council offices can see that. I also think I have a question for staff. I know that we in our budget said that we were going to have more bike officers. What's the timeline for that? So part of that is we have not identified the revenue yet. To add those, we were going to come back to money falling from mid-year and come back with a plan for how to both fund Engine 17 and also to fund six additional motorbike officers. Thank you for that motorbike. Motorbike. It was going to be a team that was bikes, but also the ability to do motorbikes or bikes. It was a rapid response team that could use both bikes or motorbikes, either one. They just put them on scooters. We put a pin in. And say, For. Scooters? Sure, why not? Anything that's mobile, anything that gets them quickly around. And I, I think what I like the friendly amendment. I fully support the friendly amendment. I think, you know, studying this in committee is a great place to do that. I also just want to recognize that kind of a process. And sometimes I feel like we're trying to implement where we get a lot of challenges, whether it's with our homeless community or scooters, where people feel like we don't have enough officers that are enforcing and that maybe we need to discuss how we handle those those complaints. Because I feel like this is one that, like I said, I originally almost didn't sign on because I felt like it was just saying we need to be enforcing our laws. And the challenge is that we're not we're not going to have enough officers to enforce every single bike policy, every single helmet out there, and that we have to do some creative community engagement programs. And I think looking at models like we have with our bikes, whereas if you return a bike to a station that you get money back into your account. So instead of saying we're going to fine, I think the deal with our rental bikes is that you get money back if you return it to to a station instead of leaving it somewhere. So just I look forward. Mr.. Back to your creative presentation when this comes back and fully support the friendly and thank you everyone for the conversation. Thank you. I appreciate Councilman Price's flexibility in this. I think that the financial incentives is a huge one, and I look forward to that opportunity. In kind of working through what our next steps are. I think that a lot more of our work should be done in committee. So I really am supportive of the friendly and look forward to hearing what the Infrastructure Committee and Transportation Committee does with us. So thank you. Fine, thank you. And do we have any public comment on this item? Vice Mayor If I could, was the public comments coming? Just to clarify the friendly amendment. 1/2, please. The friendly amendment by Councilmember Austin was to adopt the motion by the council person to reach out to the vendors and implement. Immediately the technology of available to. Ban it from the bike path and also send it to. The. Transportation and Infrastructure Committee for further study. Is that correct? I, I actually think it may have been modified with Councilman Austin's friendly that instead of banning it immediately, we're going to send it to committee. Okay. Thank you. Well, I think we still want staff to study. Look at what the geofencing, the possibilities for geofencing are. Right. Thank you. Vice Mayor. I'm cute if possible, just because of the seconder of the motion when we talked about telling these organizations at least we should send them an email that says, Friendly reminder, you agreed that X, Y and Z and it should be all of them. The dumping in random places. I mean, leave it. I mean, if we could just remind them there are 30 days left in the pilot program. Here are the things you agreed to. Any technology you have to help us to ensure you meet the terms of your agreement would be helpful. Just a thought, Councilman Price, are you okay with a friendly reminder of the terms they already agreed to? And like I said, I know there's different providers and there's different levels of responsibility. I don't know personally all the representatives, but I do know Bird has a representative at the meeting. They've been very engaged with us and very responsive. So I think it doesn't hurt to give them another reminder. And our office has had to reach out to them multiple times, two for just scooters left next to the water, next to everywhere. So I appreciate the opportunity to remind them of what they agreed to. Thank you. Thank you. No public comment. Okay. Karen, recite. I'm a resident of the First District and I live in a senior building of which there are many downtown. And I just want to share my experiences. With the scooters. I didn't see the articles about them coming until after they were on the streets. The first week I was almost run over by three. They don't make noise. I'm hard of hearing and I have poor vision, as many seniors do, and I could not hear the scooters and the people riding them. Don't yell. They don't have bells or buzzers, so you can't tell that they're coming up behind you and you're not looking at who's writing these scooters. They are young men, primarily, and I travel all over the downtown area. They're young men. They never got the rules, so they are not abiding by them. They ride them on the sidewalks, they turn them up for grabs. And another big concern is that there groups of them I saw two groups within three days going down Atlantic Avenue of eight young men in the middle of Atlantic Avenue, both sides of the street. And this, I understand, is is getting to be a growing problem. They do a. Meetup or a Facebook post and they gather in a spot. So this is a huge potential problem. I live in a 17th floor of a high rise building and on Saturday, Friday nights, if you could put a time limit on them, they get them at night and they ride up and down Pacific Avenue, disturbing the residents. Fortunately, a lot of us are hard of hearing, but I'm on the top floor. The sound rises. So I've been awakened several times by the scooters and the youth yelling back and forth if we're going to have scooters. And I believe that any mobility devices that help people to move and get them out in the community are a good thing if we do it safely and responsibly. I don't know how you're going to work. With these young men so that. They follow the rules. And Susie, you're lucky I have not seen one person with a helmet, not one. And I've probably seen 150 people on these scooters in my travels. So. Pilot programs. We need to if we're going to do pilot programs, we need to think them through a little bit better. There's no signage indicating what the rules are on the scooters. And as a senior, I would like to ride one, too. But my balance is not good enough for a two wheeled vehicle. And I know there are three wheeled kind of trikes out there. And seniors like to get around and do things that are fun too. So please consider that when you take these things into a final vote. Next. Hello. My name is Greg NZ. I've been a resident of Long Beach for about 30 years. I lived in the third district for 15 years and I currently live in the seventh district. I have been there 15 years also, and as a owner of two electric bikes, I want to commend you for deleting the bike language from that . That concerned me and made me sit through the whole meeting. But I just want to reiterate and give you some information because I don't know if all of you have been on electric bike in the. Last three years. But what they're able to do is assist you. You could ride further, longer, harder. They don't make the noise that the gas powered by cycles do and they don't emit, you know, fossil fuels into the air. So they do a lot of good things. In fact, I'm working on a website to encourage people to use this as a mode of transportation rather than their vehicles for short distance rides to the gym or to a restaurant or to the bike path. With the class three bikes, they only go 28 miles per hour. You're closed. You have to go downhill. Really hard to go a little bit over that. But they're pretty much maxed out. The accelerators on the bikes, both class two and three, they top off at 20 miles an hour. So there was a recommendation for the e-bike language that there's a speed limit. I think all bikes should adhere to that because I have a race bike also that has no motor and I can get that over 20 miles an hour if I pedal really hard. So I think maybe he's putting speed limits posted throughout the bike path would be a good recommendation and then maybe citations if they don't adhere to it. But it's not just the class two and three bikes that are able to speed, it's all bikes. So I think we need to put that into consideration. But one of the things, Councilmember Price, for looking at the language and realizing that the Class two and three are not in the same category as the scooters. So thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Anything. I'm Beth Black, co-owner of Pedigo Electric Bikes of Greater Long Beach. And I want to thank you for your careful and thoughtful discussion this evening. It really became clear to us as we sat and listened that you have learned a lot about the bikes in the process. I do want to clarify that for Councilwoman Gonzalez, that Class two electric bikes are considered to be low speed electric bikes along with Class one. They are governed to a top speed of 20 miles per hour. They can be governed lower. And we've had some of our our customers request that it really is not an issue of speed. We always follow the speed limits on the bike paths. We're very cautious. We have six years in business with membership at times with the the convention visitors bureau. Lovely presentation tonight, by the way, and an excellent record of safety with zero accidents. Nobody leaves my bike shop on a bike without wearing a helmet. And one last thing before you go. I do have to say, guys, that we just last year sold a couple of bikes to the SEAL Beach Police Department. Just this morning, I was out riding with a guest and we ran into foot, not literally, but we ran into one of the police officers in her car. And she said just two weeks ago they had to pack their bikes up for the winter and they're hoping to get appropriations so that they can ride year round. There was one point where they had a lot of traffic. Now it's a little town. I know SEAL Beach is a small town, but they get a lot of congestion down there. And the officers in a car chase after a fellow in a car, they couldn't catch him. But the guy on the e-bike rode right up and had them pull over. So think about that. They can really help with crowd situations and beach patrol and that sort of thing. Thank you very much. We'll be in touch. Thank you. Next speaker. My name's Evan Lockwood. Um. I do have a disability. And I use class two e-bikes to get around. And also to commute. One of the introductory. Paragraphs said that people on the beach pets don't primarily commute there, which I. Feels is wrong. A lot of the spandex guys also commute and then change at work. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Hi. Good evening, counsel. Thank you for having this discussion. My comments that I wrote initially have changed, obviously, because of the nature of the conversation has changed. But my name is Nick Rousseau. I work for Petal Movement, which is a local bicycling services company with headquarters here in Long Beach and operations throughout L.A. and Orange County areas . Pedal movements. The operator of the Long Beach Bike Shares program, as well as the city's bike station facility. We also work with Petco in Greater Long Beach to operate their service department, and we're a program provider for many bicycling and active transportation initiatives throughout the city. So we obviously understand the many concerns, safety and otherwise, that motorized scooters and bicycles present in our city and on our roadways and public infrastructure. We understand these concerns because we are bicyclists, pedestrians and motorists ourselves and many of our companies. Employees use the bicycling infrastructure our city has built to commute to and from work, perform their job duties and enjoy in their free time. And this includes the beach bike path as well as protected bicycling infrastructure downtown and elsewhere. So to the gentleman's last statement, the beach bike path is a place I regularly commute on, so I just would make sure that that's something we'd consider in the future. On a personal note, I can't count the number of times that I've been nearly injured while riding peacefully on the bike path by a triathlete attempting to break the land speed record. But their use of the bike path wouldn't have run afoul of the ordinance as it was presented earlier in might have realized some other injuries along the way. I also will note that I have a separate folder of photos on my phone that I take of cars, trees, street lights and other things like that, blocking my ways while I walk around the city. Any any time I see a car, you know, parked on the hood in my neighborhood, the ramp in front of their driveway that blocks my access to walk on my sidewalk. I take a picture of that and report it where I can. So the issues of dumping scooters, to me, not really that big of an issue when I have cars and street lights and other things like that that I need to regularly contend with. And I'm a fairly able bodied person. So I only imagine what it's like for folks who need to use assistive devices to get around. Anecdotally, cities across the country that have adopted scooter pilot programs have found that a lot of the users of these vehicles are overwhelmingly young and of color. So ordinances like bans, which obviously has changed now, are just another way to add to the list of justifications used to hassle young, black and brown neighbors to keep them from getting to where they need to go. And the same is true for a lot of other assistive and mobility devices. So thanks for the comments. Obviously, things have changed a little bit, but we appreciate it. Thank you. Next, bigger. My name is John Cannon. And not to be redundant, but I'm here for the same reason to thank you for removing the Class two ebikes from the list of things that might be prohibited in the future. I ride a bike often and I'm sort of representing seniors, I guess, at this point in time, because all those young people that came up here and they ride them and what they said, all true. I've been riding on the Long Beach path for 17 years. Not any bike all the time. I used to be able to ride a real plain old, hard working bike, but I'm considered a senior. And that means seniors definition is you're old, so you can't do things like you used to do. I like to. I would love to, but it doesn't happen that way. So I came across the e-bikes and was quite happy to find them and I've been writing them along with a group of seniors, mostly locally, and we do come on the Long Beach path. Often we stop and eat at your restaurants. So we're bringing some business into the community as well. The the throttles that are on those bikes actually are like a. And a. Excuse me, an accommodation for safety. I use it when I start up my ride and. To get a start. It's because it's too hard to get started on pedaling and that gives me the start I need. Then I can pedal and I have pedal assist to help combat the throttles are also helpful in I am sorry to keeping balance at times and we don't generally use them for racing or anything else. I never have done that, but I just want you to know that for seniors, these bikes are have been extremely helpful. Many, many people that have different kinds of ailments or artificial knees backs bolted together, all of which I have. I've had a heart attack. I have asthma, I can still ride a bike and I'm going to keep riding as long as I can. I don't want to have to ride on the streets. It's too dangerous. So I appreciate your consideration to continue to allow class to e-bikes on the paths. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Thank you, Vice Mayor and City Council. And I want. To thank Council Woman Price for reconsidering. The class. Two E-bikes. My name is Brian Ballard. I'm co-owner of. Pedal Electric Bikes with Beth Black, who you just heard of. I want to read a statement here real quick. I've been a type one diabetic for 45 years. I work in the health care industry. And in addition to. Owning the bike shop and I do diabetic education and I do diabetic support groups. About nine years ago, Beth and I were riding on a regular pedal, pedal bikes. We were about ten miles from home, and my blood sugar started dropping rapidly. Fortunately, I had some couple. Bottles of. Juices. I had. To lie on the. Grass waiting for my blood sugar to rise. However, the experience scared. Beth and I both, and we did not ride regular pedal bikes for a while. About a year later, Beth and I. Discovered electric bikes. I was excited about this because I was able. To ride a long distance and not worry about pedaling home. If my sugar dropped, a low blood sugar can be deadly if not treated quickly. High blood sugar does not kill you immediately, but contributes to long term complications. Having to pedal a regular bike or pedal a class. One electric bike while my sugar is low. Can still drop my glucose drastically. Having a throttle to get me somewhere where I can get. Something to eat or drink without pedaling is a benefit and. Helping me prevent my hyper hypoglycemia. From getting worse. Beth and I have owned two electric. Bikes now for eight years. In addition to owning the electric bike shop. Since I started writing my electric. Bike, I worry less about. My sugar dropping too low. When I'm writing. And yes, I do get exercise on my class to e-bike. As you just heard the speaker before, me too occurred. To control diabetes, you need exercise, diet and medication. My class to bike motivates me to exercise. Gives me peace of mind. And when I'm writing, it helps me control my blood sugar. Exercise is hard. My father was a runner and a marathoner. He once told me, You have to make exercise fun for people to do it. Well, class two e-bikes do make exercise fun. Also. Many of our. Customers are seniors. Many seniors have orthopedic problems, a hip replacement, knee replacement. And many of their doctors tell them, we want you to. Exercise with. Caution. These bikes allow those orthopedic patients to exercise without overdoing it. And these are perfect for those seniors. Patients who do have knee problems, hip problems. Thank you once again for reconsidering the. E-Bike situation. On this subject. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker. Hi. My name is Bob Nolan and I also have a Pedigo Ebike and my wife does too. And that was one of the reasons why. We. Started writing down here is we wanted it to be both our exercising. My wife has a bad back. And I have bad knees and the pedagogs allow us to get on the bike path and ride. She pedals more. I throttle more, but I still pedal. They just help us have mobility. And as far as I know, in our group. No one has has run into anybody. And we are just super cautious. We wear helmets, we follow the speed limits. So and I'm glad that you folks have looked at. The changes that might be needed. Scooters. Yeah, they do zip around you. But we actually have breaks. We have. I bell's to let people know we're behind them so. In summary, I just wanted to say thank you for reconsidering this. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Next speaker. No. Mr. Dean. The Vice and the city council to. We are always concerned about the. But. No more Palm Springs. I think the boat, the pismo wait is to solve this is to make a better law. Little red riding in the street. I think that's worth it to go down and meet these spray bys, be legally for leaving. Well, I know people hear me on the tape. Tell me tomorrow. I know we are and it is certain A-word out. When I think of fans, they save the import. They can write it or. Not that they've decided on that beach. I think that there's a lot more riding in the street. They can ride illegally in the street and everything will be okay. Right. And in the long. If they can. If they they can be respectable riding in the street. And if they can be respectable and riding. Without breaking the loading so much run. I think running illegally in the streets and being more safe. Thank you, sir. Thank you to the council for listening to me tonight. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, counsel. My name's Thomas Lord. I'm the general manager for Lime. We're one of the operators in the pilot. I think that this conversation's obviously evolved quite a bit since the original agenda item. Um, and I think you guys are on the right track. Um, there seem to be two issues. One is the leaving of scooters on the beach and the other is, you know, speed. Um, there I can speak for lime. We definitely have the technology to address both of those. I think one thing to keep in mind is that there are operators that do not have that technology. And in turning that technology on, we then put ourselves in a no bird has the technology as well at somewhat of a competitive disadvantage from a consumer experience. Um. You know, if you're if you're writing a line and it doesn't work on the beach or you're writing another company, and it does, you're going to continue to read the other companies. And so revisiting the pilot and asking operators to if they have the technology to turn it on. I would also ask that you either somehow penalize operators that, you know, refuse to or don't have that technology to put on. But that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you. 1/2, please. I had just a follow up question. You said you do have the technology to be able to to cut them off or not make them inoperable. Do you have that? Does the technology afford you the ability to govern the speed? Yes. So actually, the technology we we have the technology to stop them, although we generally, as a policy don't do that because we find it unsafe. The speed is the solution that Santa monica went with. So we govern them on the beach in Santa monica at eight miles per hour. Um, along with that, we also do what we call no chip. No chip. And which is you can't begin a trip on the beach path. Um, and no trips stop, which is you can't stop your trip on the beach. So you would kind of address your problem of a lot of scooters being left on the on the path. Thank you. And I appreciate you being here this evening. Yeah, good to be here. Thank you, sir. Anyone? Yes. Go ahead. Miss me. Councilwoman. Two things. One, appreciate your coming today and being open to answering some questions. Your competitive advantage would be that because you followed the rules, you're in a better position to actually have a long term contract with our city. Yeah. And I guess my question would be, what would we need to be providing you as a city to create those geo fences? Or when you check it out on the app, would it be able to say like, note, you're near Eldorado Park, don't leave a thing on the beach path or you will be fined or I mean, could you do pop up messages of any kind? Yeah. So we can do it, not messages that that describe what what's what's happening. So if someone isn't confused, I think that what we've seen in in the past is that a lot of cities will say, you know, during our pilot, if you do X, Y and Z, you won't be considered for for, you know, the permanent program and then you're still considered for the permanent program. Yeah. So I think that it needs to kind of like. Concrete like this is what's going to happen if you if you don't. And so that all we're all on the same same page. That would be my suggestion. But I do see that as a competitive advantage for the long run. It'd be shortsighted not to consider that. Right. So just so you know, on any given Tuesday, we can change the laws by five votes on this council so we can say anything we want. This week and next week, five votes changes the law. So that's just how local government is. But I appreciate you and thank you for your feedback. And my office will probably be reaching out. Thank you. All right. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Next Vice. Mayor and. Members of the city council. My name is. On a consolidated man. I work for a government. Relations firm sanctioned by we represent Bird. I want to thank Suzy Price and the rest of the council for tonight's motion. We really appreciate that. We look forward to working with the Transportation Committee. Craig, your your office has been great and so we're looking forward to working with you. We believe that our client has gone way and beyond to reach out to most of the organizations. In. Various neighborhoods to make sure that we're a community partner. We want to continue to do that. So thank you for tonight. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Councilman Richardson and Councilman Gordy. I also just wanted to thank you all for listening to the discussion and adjusting your comments. Oftentimes, people come to council and they're dead set on communicating what they came here to communicate despite the changes. And I think that one of the things that we really try to do on this council is start a dialog. Even if the original policy might be the most extreme, but to at least give us a range, an understanding of where we can go. And so I hope that you'll communicate back out to your constituents in the same way you did before to let them know where we are and what additional opportunities there will be for input and advocacy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. I just wanted to raise up one thing that I just heard from the gentleman from lime. So you said you can you have the ability to limit stops, made trip stops in a geofence area. So what happens if someone gets off the you know, gets off the, you know, the bike? And goes to the beach and hangs out. Do they continue to get charged while it's just sitting there? Because that's a pretty good penalty. Yeah, that's exactly what we're. What would happen? So you wouldn't it would give you an error code in the error code would explain you're in an area where you can't and the chip and if you were to leave it in the the sender on the on the path, you would continue to get charged. And how have you implemented that somewhere in Santa monica? And do you have any evidence of, you know, what the response was or the behavior change? I mean. It's tough to to measure that because you could continue to ride at eight miles per hour through that geofence. It has drastically changed the scene in in Santa monica. You know, it went from Santa monica having to use a lot of their. Resources to have enforcement on speed and stuff like that to I think it's drastically come down. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that point. Staff. That's a great point. If we're going to evaluate something in the pilot, I want to know if we deploy something like that, what the what the impact is. That's what I'd like to see. If, you know, we may not have to create a fine, we can literally just have the clock keep running if they don't park it the right way. Seems like a good idea to me. Thank you. Senior morning comments which placed catchable. And now she can substitute motion. Right. Thank you. Okay. Let's go down to item 21, 22. Excuse me.