Recommendation to request City Attorney to provide a review of the City of Costa Mesa "Civic Openness in Negotiations" ordinance and the feasibility of a similar ordinance being adopted by the Long Beach City Council.
Item 11 is communication with the office Councilwoman Jeri Ships and council member Gary DeLong with a request that the city attorney provide a review of the city of Costa mesa, civic, civic openness in negotiations, ordinance and the feasibility of a similar ordinance being adopted in the city by the Long Beach City Council. Councilmember Lipski I think, Mr. Garcia, this actually is a report from the Civil Service and Personnel Committee that has taken up this item over a period of years, and we wanted to report it out to the full council. Over this time, we have taken a look with the city attorney's assistance, potential measures that would afford the people of Long Beach with more information concerning the collective bargaining process. I want to stress that we talked in this council before about the possibility of adopting the government code that is utilized for school districts that require some training , among other things, proposed bargaining items being offered and ask, as well as tentative agreements before ratification by the legislative body. Until recently. Well, what happened when we had this discussion at council originally, and how did it the Civil Service and Personnel Committee was that cities had not adopted anything similar and the city attorney's staff brought to us a committee that recently the city of Costa mesa had enacted the Civic Openness and Negotiations Ordinance, actually with the support and help of the City Employees Association and among other things. What this requires is the city must hire an independent negotiator before contract talks with an employee association. Begin an independent economic analysis must be done on the fiscal impacts of each contract term, and the results of that analysis must be made public 30 days prior to negotiations. Often this council doesn't even get that each council member must disclose if he or she has had any communications about the negotiations with the representative of the employee association. As negotiations begin, the City Council must report publicly after closed sessions, any prior offers and counteroffers and their fiscal impact to the taxpayer. And they meet and confer related bargaining positions received and or made by either side that are no longer being considered must also be disclosed and before the City Council can vote on an employee contract. It must be discussed at least two council meetings and the proposal posted on the city website at least seven days prior to the first meeting. The Civil Service and Personnel Committee brings us to the full council with a request that the city attorney take a look at this ordinance and advise the city council whether or not that is something that the City Council could adopt. Please don't shoot the messenger. This this is something that we want it to finish up in civil service and personnel committee. I know it is controversial, particularly among labor unions. I will give you my credits out here first that I've been a longtime labor attorney and I understand both sides in terms of their position. But I also do understand that we need more transparency and openness in this process. And I want to thank Mr. DeLong for co-sponsoring this. And with that, I would make a motion that we request the city attorney to provide a review of the city of Costa mesa, civic openness and negotiations ordinance and the feasibility of a similar ordinance being adopted by the Long Beach City Council. Second. There's been a motion, and a second, any public comment on the item? I'd like to make a substitute move to receive and file. There's been a motion in a second to receive and file any public comment on the item. See none. No other council comment. Councilor DeLong. So I'm sorry, Jerry, could you elaborate on exactly what was your motion here? My motion was to request that the city attorney would because we don't have this in the agenda item that he review the ordinance that has been in use in the city of Costa mesa and report back to the city of Long Beach as to whether or not such a ordinance is feasible. We have the report in committee, but we didn't get a follow up. Thank you. It my intention here. Thank you. Okay. Well, I guess what I'd like to do as a substitute substitute now I what I'd like to add to that that now I request the city attorney to look at it from a legal perspective, but to ask the city manager to respond to the council as well as to how and what the identified potential pros and cons are from a city staff and human resources perspective in moving this direction. You know, while I would certainly like to see what they both have to say, I would tell you for me, anything that improves the transparency of what we do, I think is a good thing. I know that some of the most difficult questions that I get from the community is after we have voted and, you know, a very large contract such as this is, you know, how did we get to where we got to? What can I say? What can I not say? You know, a great deal of it occurred in closed session. So I really can't provide that much information from a legal perspective, the community and I think this would go a long way towards not only providing the community additional information, but also making it clear to what we can talk about, what we can't talk about, because it will be a published document or at least the appropriate portions of it will be published. So that's my motion. But there's been a motion and a second concern. Boston. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Sikorski and a longer list for bringing forward this this issue for discussion. I have no issue with transparency either. I think as public officials, we should all be laying it out there for our public to see. And as far as I'm concerned, our labor negotiations, the contracts are online and available for any resident to see at any time. The contract negotiations obviously is done between city staff and labor negotiators representing various unions. I don't think any of us are in those rooms or in those proceedings are or or privileged any of the the information in those proceedings other than giving direction to the staff. As far as the transparency component, I've worked through the Mayor's Millions Brown Back Act that actually governs collective bargaining, the state law that governs collective bargaining for local government and for the city of Long Beach. There's nothing in here that that that that refers to that. I've actually read the deals act where there is some sort of a little bit more transparency with state employees as far as disclosing the terms of the contracts upfront. And so in that regard, I think you may be on the right track, but what I'm also concerned about is the additional and unnecessary cost that could be associated with some of the the proposals here specifically related to hiring outside counsel to negotiate contracts. I mean, if we don't have qualified employees here to do that in H.R., we need to get them because that is a perpetual interest that the city has. I mean, contract negotiations don't end at the end of contract negotiations. Meeting confirms happen throughout the year. And I think what's missing here is probably from the public as well is that negotiations are ongoing. You know, they never stop. On wages, conditions, benefits, particularly in terms and conditions of employment. When policy changes are made, their meaning confers. And that's that bargaining. That's collective bargaining. So I'm really concerned about the additional cost that that could be associated with this. I will agree that during this last round of negotiations, there were some areas where I had some concerns about, concerns about I'm not sure they're fully addressed here. And because of that, I think I'm in support of Councilmember O'Donnell's motion to receive and file. Okay. We're going to move on. Before we go on, conservatorships, we can get a clarification. I thought I'd heard a second on counterpart to Long's motion. Was there a second? No second concern for Lowenthal, Second City Councilmember Shipka. Mr. Ashton, I appreciate your comments. Although you did talk to me about perhaps having an outside negotiator for the management portion of the contract. So you're right, I did. I think that is that's prudent. And it eliminates any sort of conflict if that is the case. But this doesn't say that. Well, if I can, I will I will add that I know the Miller is Myers Brown at backwards and forwards, having represented numerous city employee groups. And I will tell you, nothing in that act prohibits us from doing this whatsoever. This in no way impacts the rights of the two parties to negotiate. It is not bringing the public in to the bargaining room. It is simply getting information out to the public in a timely manner. And perhaps maybe with the substitute that I think Mr. DeLong did, the city attorney can come back. And that's what my request was. And in fact, if there would be any difficulties in terms of the contracts online, there is no cost associated on those contracts. There is no financial analysis published either for the council or the public about each contract term and the cost. That is much different than just posting a contract online so that this goes beyond that. And then I would be very interested from the city manager's point of view what the added cost would be for us to be transparent. I think, you know, the fiscal impact, as I put in the motion, is to be determined by the city manager and we don't know. So perhaps a separate from hiring a independent negotiator for the management team, I would be very interested to see what the costs would be involved for the other issues here, too. And I think maybe in Mr. Lang's motion that could be covered when we get the report back. Mr. O'Dowd. I can't remember long ago. I just wanted to confirm that we're looking for information on this issue. I don't think we're changing anything. I'm not averse to receiving a report from the city attorney or staff on on any aspect of this. And then we can take up any recommendation that any council member may bring forward. But there's no recommendation here, and it's asking for a report. And that's where my support is coming from. Mr. Dillon. Thank you. You know, Councilmember, often I share your concern about adding any cost to the government process. But like Councilmember Lowenthal, I guess what I thought we were doing was asking for some additional information here. I'm certainly not wedded to it has to be done this way. But, you know, maybe a maybe a third. It's this good, maybe a half, maybe 80%. I don't know. I think I'll have a a better feel for that up to the city attorney and the city manager come back with some kind of report for us to to review and discuss. But certainly, I would share your concern that, you know, does it really make sense to hire an outside firm to do all this? Perhaps not. Maybe it does for management, but it doesn't for the other labor groups. And I would certainly be, you know, very open and interested in that kind of a discussion. But at least I to have the information come back so we could have that kind of discussion. So that's why I support the the motion that's on the table. Let's get along just for you. Just repeat what the motion is. Basically, yes, the motion is to request the city attorney to provide a review of the city of Costa mesa Civic over openness, negotiations, ordinance and the feasibility of a similar ordinance being adopted by the lobby, city council. And for the city manager to provide, you know, perhaps a memo that determines the feasibility from a staff and human resources perspective, what the pros and cons might be of this approach. So you're not adopting it. You're just just asking for information. All right, Mr. Ralston. And thanks. Thanks a lot. I do appreciate, like I said, that discussion. My my my real concern here is that we the collective bargaining process is difficult and complicated enough, as is with the dynamics that exist by further complicating this and politicizing it. I think it will it will dilute and pollute the process even further. And so I think and I don't mean any disrespect to to to the authors of this agenda item. I just think we need to move forward very carefully using Costa mesa as an example. Costa mesa has not been the the the example city that we want to follow in terms of our labor management relationship. And so I would I will just rest on that. Mr. Mayor, can a comment. Yeah, go ahead. Well, you know, I had the same response when I saw the draft of the of the item. And Councilwoman Chavkin explained it to me when I brought that to her attention when she said that the ordinance was actually developed cooperatively between management and labor. But I guess. I beg your pardon. Were. Well, but I guess it wasn't shoved down anybody's throat. So it was it was done in a harmonious way. And if we move forward with some aspect of this, I would hope it would be done in a harmonious, harmonious way in Long Beach as well. And also, so have. We consulted with any of our employee groups about this? Well, I know that that's the motion is in fact, I won't get that kind of information, Mr. Austin. But nobody nobody is agreeing to go any way in the direction of goes to Mesa or not in the direction of Costa mesa. And I think what everybody's trying to do, or at least with the motions trying to do, is to see what the pros and cons of that approach are. And quite frankly, you know, I mean, people say if it's not broke, don't fix it. But that doesn't mean if it's not broke, don't improve it. And you at least should have some information out there as to what some alternatives are. I know there's a lot of nervousness. I don't know which election period and all that stuff. But you know what? Just getting information doesn't appear to me to be harmful. I'll just state that. Mr. Garcia. Thank you. I'm going to first, I think listen, open and transparency, I think is great. I'll be brief. I am familiar with the Costa mesa model. I personally have information about I don't think it's a model we want to replicate here in Long Beach. So I'll be voting no on the motion. Okay. All right. Any further comments? If not, we have a motion as described by Mr. DeLong, the city attorney, city manager, to come forward with information about my words, pluses and minuses of the the outlines of the Costa mesa at all procedure on collective bargaining members. Castro. Well, Mr.. Mr. Mayor, if I may. Yeah. If if Vice Mayor Garcia has a concern, they want to look at one model that that he doesn't think was the most optimal. I mean, I'm not going to do this. I'm certainly open looking. If there's any specific cities that you're aware of, do you think goes well? Or if you want us to give staff a more general direction to take a look at other cities in addition to Costa mesa? I'm certainly receptive to that. Would that be helpful? All right, let let. Let's go forward. Okay. All right. On. On Mr. Dillon's motion. Members casting votes. Motion fails for four votes. Four votes? No. Okay. So we would go revert to Mr. Donnelly's motion, is that correct? Right. Which is to receive and file that. Correct. All right. Members on Mr. O'Donnell's motion to receive and file reset the board. I'm Mr. Downs motion. Motion carries five votes. Three votes. All right. Thank you and good discussion. Thanks very much. That was item 11, was it not? Correct. Item 12.