###Instruction: Multi-class classification, answer with one of the labels:['no_consensus', 'delete', 'keep', 'comment', 'merge', 'redirect'] : ###Input:  Q121913638: Q121913638 : no description : ( delete | history | links | entity usage | logs ) Notability? Lymantria ( talk ) 05:40, 29 August 2023 (UTC) Delete Non-notable, promotional, and a mess of bad statements.  References are all English Wikipedia (Q328) , but I doubt enwiki refers to this church at all. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 23:05, 30 August 2023 (UTC) Keep I've found a reference that suggests this passes WD:N https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/business-directory/california/inglewood/christian-church/2016859781-allstars-international-church Promotional / bad statement issues should be resolved through fixing the entry Jack4576 ( talk ) 13:03, 31 August 2023 (UTC) That page is by its own admission “platform which helps small businesses grow by allowing our members to promote themselves using effective tools and features on the Chamber website”. That’s not a serious source per WD:N. -- Emu ( talk ) 13:22, 31 August 2023 (UTC) Perhaps not. Although I think its arguable. This source doesn't appear to be joke, and appears to be genuine evidence that this subject is an entity per WD:N . In my view it is therefore sufficiently serious. Additionally, there is this reference to suggest the same: https://zaubee.com/biz/allstars-international-church-xq5vcon9 Do we have additional guidance as to what 'serious' means? Otherwise I'm happy to stick with my intuition as to what the word 'serious' means within the guideline. Jack4576 ( talk ) 14:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) That page is by its own admission “platform which helps small businesses grow by allowing our members to promote themselves using effective tools and features on the Chamber website”. That’s not a serious source per WD:N. -- Emu ( talk ) 13:22, 31 August 2023 (UTC) Perhaps not. Although I think its arguable. This source doesn't appear to be joke, and appears to be genuine evidence that this subject is an entity per WD:N . In my view it is therefore sufficiently serious. Additionally, there is this reference to suggest the same: https://zaubee.com/biz/allstars-international-church-xq5vcon9 Do we have additional guidance as to what 'serious' means? Otherwise I'm happy to stick with my intuition as to what the word 'serious' means within the guideline. Jack4576 ( talk ) 14:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) Perhaps not. Although I think its arguable. This source doesn't appear to be joke, and appears to be genuine evidence that this subject is an entity per WD:N . In my view it is therefore sufficiently serious. Additionally, there is this reference to suggest the same: https://zaubee.com/biz/allstars-international-church-xq5vcon9 Do we have additional guidance as to what 'serious' means? Otherwise I'm happy to stick with my intuition as to what the word 'serious' means within the guideline. Jack4576 ( talk ) 14:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) That page is by its own admission “platform which helps small businesses grow by allowing our members to promote themselves using effective tools and features on the Chamber website”. That’s not a serious source per WD:N. -- Emu ( talk ) 13:22, 31 August 2023 (UTC) Perhaps not. Although I think its arguable. This source doesn't appear to be joke, and appears to be genuine evidence that this subject is an entity per WD:N . In my view it is therefore sufficiently serious. Additionally, there is this reference to suggest the same: https://zaubee.com/biz/allstars-international-church-xq5vcon9 Do we have additional guidance as to what 'serious' means? Otherwise I'm happy to stick with my intuition as to what the word 'serious' means within the guideline. Jack4576 ( talk ) 14:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) Perhaps not. Although I think its arguable. This source doesn't appear to be joke, and appears to be genuine evidence that this subject is an entity per WD:N . In my view it is therefore sufficiently serious. Additionally, there is this reference to suggest the same: https://zaubee.com/biz/allstars-international-church-xq5vcon9 Do we have additional guidance as to what 'serious' means? Otherwise I'm happy to stick with my intuition as to what the word 'serious' means within the guideline. Jack4576 ( talk ) 14:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) Perhaps not. Although I think its arguable. This source doesn't appear to be joke, and appears to be genuine evidence that this subject is an entity per WD:N . In my view it is therefore sufficiently serious. Additionally, there is this reference to suggest the same: https://zaubee.com/biz/allstars-international-church-xq5vcon9 Do we have additional guidance as to what 'serious' means? Otherwise I'm happy to stick with my intuition as to what the word 'serious' means within the guideline. Jack4576 ( talk ) 14:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) I think that elaboration of what "serious" means is a potential idea for improvement of WD:N , and it has been discussed on the talk page there.  In the absence of such clarification, I agree with @ Emu regarding the chamberofcommerce.com entry, and also doubt Zaubee as a source establishing notability. Jamie7687 ( talk ) 16:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC) In the absence of such clarification I maintain that the ordinary and plain meaning of 'serious' encompasses and includes the sources above, although I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ. Jack4576 ( talk ) Jack4576 ( talk ) 10:24, 1 September 2023 (UTC) I agree with Emu that the chamberofcommerce.com link does not imply notability. So I still stand with my request. -- Lymantria ( talk ) 11:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)