###Instruction: Multi-class classification, answer with one of the labels:['no_consensus', 'delete', 'keep', 'comment', 'merge', 'redirect'] : ###Input:  Q37822184: See Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 . Items can be replaced with the one of the relevant position and qualified with a term. --- Jura 16:47, 27 July 2018 (UTC) On hold This item is linked from 8 others. -- DeltaBot ( talk ) 16:50, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Oppose Sigh. The linked discussion clearly provides references to show that these positions exist, and are explicitly referred to as such by the Estonian Parliament, Estonian Government, the Estonian wikipedia articles of most of the members, etc. This seems to be either an attempt to make an end-run around the decisions reached previously, or an attempt to re-litigate the issue in another forum. -- Oravrattas ( talk ) 17:10, 27 July 2018 (UTC) You or your employer might be confusing parliamentary term and position. Sorry for not listing this for deletion earlier, somwhat mistakenly I assumed you understood the approach used by Wikidata instead. --- Jura 17:20, 27 July 2018 (UTC) No. You have been given lots of evidence on this, but just seem to ignore it. In addition, we are following the generally agreed approach. You just don't like it, and keep trying to block it. -- Oravrattas ( talk ) 17:42, 27 July 2018 (UTC) If EveryPolitician/MySociety's systems has an internal need for such fictious functions, your devs could just re-map them internally. --- Jura 17:29, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Oppose I thought this had been settled a year ago. Jura says that "the approach used by Wikidata" is different - in reality, there are two widely used approaches to modelling the data, with one (using "member of Nth parliament") more detailed than the other (using "member of parliament"). However, he disagrees with the use of this particular data model and has repeatedly objected to its use, despite people working with it saying repeatedly that it is a useful method. This particular approach is used for Estonia, but also for the UK (with >10k items!), Bangladesh, etc. Both approaches can coexist happily, and indeed for the UK both approaches are in use for the same country in different time periods as we make more data available (though I'm hoping to do a big switchover to Nth terms for historic data soon). I have not worked with the Estonian data, but I have with the UK data, and I simply could not do the work I'm doing anything like as efficiently without using separated member items. It is technically possible to change, but practically in terms of data management and analysis it's a lot easier to work with this approach; there's nothing stopping us changing in future, but I don't think we're at a point yet where that would be easily maintainable, and "consistency for the sake of consistency" would just throw out huge amounts of work. If this is the model that works best for Estonia for the time being, then it should remain in place for now, until the people working with it are happy to change over. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 20:59, 27 July 2018 (UTC) How about re-reading the discussion of last year about Estonia? EveryPolitician/MySociety/etc didn't support the approach with using actual positions and  changed it without our agreement, but this doesn't make it any better. It just shows how much EveryPolitician/MySociety values Wikidata users input. --- Jura 22:16, 27 July 2018 (UTC) I was involved in that discussion, and for many other discussions around this material. I do not remember or interpret them the same way you do - concerns were raised about this approach, a justification was put forward, and there it rested. Then you brought it up again in a different venue and we had the debate all over again. And so on. You keep saying things like "our agreement" or "the approach used by Wikidata" but this is very misleading - your opinion is not always the same as the community's opinion, and the approach you suggest is not always the one actually being used, even if you think it's correct. I am a Wikidata contributor - and not from "EveryPolitician/MySociety/etc" - I actually work with political data, and I think this model is fine and useful. As to change - of course as standard models get rolled out for a set of items, some will get changed and updated. This is how we make Wikidata better. Insisting we go back to less useful approaches doesn't help anyone. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 22:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 was started after the employee of EveryPolitician/MySociety tried to change the approach from using P39 with the position to some dummy positions like member of the Riigikogu (Q37822184) . You didn't even comment there. Just re-read it and think about what people actually wrote about it. --- Jura 07:05, 28 July 2018 (UTC) My apologies - it was on one of the other discussions about this that I commented (it's hard to keep track when it kept getting raised in different locations). I feel the point still stands. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 09:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC) I was involved in that discussion, and for many other discussions around this material. I do not remember or interpret them the same way you do - concerns were raised about this approach, a justification was put forward, and there it rested. Then you brought it up again in a different venue and we had the debate all over again. And so on. You keep saying things like "our agreement" or "the approach used by Wikidata" but this is very misleading - your opinion is not always the same as the community's opinion, and the approach you suggest is not always the one actually being used, even if you think it's correct. I am a Wikidata contributor - and not from "EveryPolitician/MySociety/etc" - I actually work with political data, and I think this model is fine and useful. As to change - of course as standard models get rolled out for a set of items, some will get changed and updated. This is how we make Wikidata better. Insisting we go back to less useful approaches doesn't help anyone. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 22:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 was started after the employee of EveryPolitician/MySociety tried to change the approach from using P39 with the position to some dummy positions like member of the Riigikogu (Q37822184) . You didn't even comment there. Just re-read it and think about what people actually wrote about it. --- Jura 07:05, 28 July 2018 (UTC) My apologies - it was on one of the other discussions about this that I commented (it's hard to keep track when it kept getting raised in different locations). I feel the point still stands. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 09:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC) Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 was started after the employee of EveryPolitician/MySociety tried to change the approach from using P39 with the position to some dummy positions like member of the Riigikogu (Q37822184) . You didn't even comment there. Just re-read it and think about what people actually wrote about it. --- Jura 07:05, 28 July 2018 (UTC) My apologies - it was on one of the other discussions about this that I commented (it's hard to keep track when it kept getting raised in different locations). I feel the point still stands. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 09:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC) I was involved in that discussion, and for many other discussions around this material. I do not remember or interpret them the same way you do - concerns were raised about this approach, a justification was put forward, and there it rested. Then you brought it up again in a different venue and we had the debate all over again. And so on. You keep saying things like "our agreement" or "the approach used by Wikidata" but this is very misleading - your opinion is not always the same as the community's opinion, and the approach you suggest is not always the one actually being used, even if you think it's correct. I am a Wikidata contributor - and not from "EveryPolitician/MySociety/etc" - I actually work with political data, and I think this model is fine and useful. As to change - of course as standard models get rolled out for a set of items, some will get changed and updated. This is how we make Wikidata better. Insisting we go back to less useful approaches doesn't help anyone. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 22:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC) Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 was started after the employee of EveryPolitician/MySociety tried to change the approach from using P39 with the position to some dummy positions like member of the Riigikogu (Q37822184) . You didn't even comment there. Just re-read it and think about what people actually wrote about it. --- Jura 07:05, 28 July 2018 (UTC) My apologies - it was on one of the other discussions about this that I commented (it's hard to keep track when it kept getting raised in different locations). I feel the point still stands. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 09:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC) Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 was started after the employee of EveryPolitician/MySociety tried to change the approach from using P39 with the position to some dummy positions like member of the Riigikogu (Q37822184) . You didn't even comment there. Just re-read it and think about what people actually wrote about it. --- Jura 07:05, 28 July 2018 (UTC) My apologies - it was on one of the other discussions about this that I commented (it's hard to keep track when it kept getting raised in different locations). I feel the point still stands. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 09:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC) Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Parliaments#Member_of_the_10th_Riigikogu_.28Q37822184.29 was started after the employee of EveryPolitician/MySociety tried to change the approach from using P39 with the position to some dummy positions like member of the Riigikogu (Q37822184) . You didn't even comment there. Just re-read it and think about what people actually wrote about it. --- Jura 07:05, 28 July 2018 (UTC) My apologies - it was on one of the other discussions about this that I commented (it's hard to keep track when it kept getting raised in different locations). I feel the point still stands. Andrew Gray ( talk ) 09:41, 28 July 2018 (UTC) Not done -- Pasleim ( talk ) 08:06, 6 August 2018 (UTC)