time and time again they sit on the sidelines saying  this is what we think  don't talk to us about it  don't debate it, don't ask us to think about it, take it or leave it, if you don't give us what we want we'll sit back and moan  and sulk  and they've played, I think that's a very irresponsible line they've played in the five years I've been on this council  and I hope that er  again the issue on the next item on the agenda represents a change of heart on their behalf.