It's helpful in the context of the  dollar preference shares we want to issue  because one of the factors of this very small, and as you say cheap  er, historic issue of preference shares is that, er  no preference shares other than those can be repaid prior to that  and the dollar shares we wish to issue which are permanent shares, can be  er, can be erm  repaid at our option and we do want to keep that flexibility in the context of either if interest rates get very high or if the tax treaty between the U S and the U K changes to make them more onerous on the company  and in those circumstances we would be inhibited by the existence of this small historic issue of preference shares  and therefore  it is on balance, although you're quite right there, a cheap  er, source of capital in themselves  it is helpful to the company in the wider sense I believe  if they are repaid.