Now, you, you could have  the linear ordering  that's an alternative proposal erm, but then you've actually got erm  you've got to come up with a kind of proper account of these structures of how they come about and of the relation and then you've got to check it out against all the other data and all I can say is as it happens, I've tried that and it doesn't work  but that's only and we want to find out if you can see that the  quite a long way.