The, they really convert bibles for doing that is because I've always done that of er right that's, that's out of the way, jump the paperwork, now what about talking about your clubs and that t to sort of close down the call and relax the client for getting into referral mode and I've always done it tail end on so the introduction to the referral is at the beginning and perhaps looking for them during i is totally unfamiliar, I mean I do note the odd thing as I go through and note them down on the, the  but I'd never been used to actually  although we were told  referrals  how and why that went with it.