Thank you Mr Mayor I just wanted t to come in with two fairly quick points er as to why I will not be able to support this amendment, but the first is that the leader of the council has indicated that the efficiency savings  erm has  got as far as it can go and that, you know, we have been trimming at the margins and there is no more margin left and that leads you to believe that perhaps one should be looking at somewhat more er root and branch type of pruning in the spending that that the labour group want to actually erm deal with, er and the second point I would like to make, and  er I thank councillor  for giving us a a a a new word tonight obfuscation because that describes exactly what I think the labour group are trying to do by bringing this figure down it removes the embarrassment they would have from having to add on a substantial sum of money f due to the failure to collect the cou er the community charge in previous years and I think that they are trying by by this amendment with some  very quick foot work to try and delude the people of this city.