Now that doesn't the Kipsigy was just the study of the  erm  you know it's a good statistical it's good hard-hat social science you know with  distribution and everything  it's all good stuff, erm  they don't say that, where we do know this is something I have researched myself very carefully, the Australian Aborigines erm we have rich data on this and I've read an awful lot of it and I compared notes with world authorities like David McKnight and erm erm what's his name erm  Shapiro authority on this, and they agree that er that's definitely what happens.