Erm, if you compare for example erm their real savings on er er budgetary items er it comes to about half a million, just over half a million er compared to the ones we're putting forward about a third of million and if you look at the dips in the two budgets for that you'll see that erm we disagree with their saving on community arts and  that er they propose saving on in on information technology costs is unrealistic er that market is changing very rapidly there's another large organisation in this city which has found us going down track which we are now proposing to down, has produced no income at all, no no no reduction in cost at all .