well my Lord, yes the stay of the counterclaim as a set off, that would then be denying article eighty five as a shield  well of course it wouldn't undermine the defences based upon article eighty five per se, the other ways, I mean the set off is simply one way in which the defence arises, it arises in three other ways as your Lordship seems to have an opinion, security or set off is simply one of the ways  the defence, but it's not the only defence, so to simply state that part of the defence would not get the, would not mean that the article eighty five defence erm, er, evaporated in any way shape or form, the whole defence would have to be stayed so that there was none, no defence left, a defence on article eighty five