And so he's the one who started doing this — I don't know if you remember Rolling Stone during that period he started getting slight, not really new wave, but we used some of the constructivist thing of breaking pages somewhat and pushing things on angles or erm My favourite was his Bob Dylan spread which actually I did, but it was based on what he was trying to get me to do, where everything read left to right and everything was, you know, point sizes lined up and everything was on a column grid, but it was, when you looked at it you had to, you know, like focus on it.