Erm I mean kids can do, of a similar age, can do enormously abusive things to each-other in which case it's often thought of as things like bulling or erm or or something like that y'know I mean for example I know somebody who attende was educated at Rugby and you know he was he was buggered silly by the other boys who also wired him up to the mains and stuck billiard cues up his bum and all sort of things.