Re­balancing the offline and online integration
Dermühl, Katharina
The engagement of the civil socitey for refugees since last year has been enormous and still keeps a lot of people busy. Especially in Berlin a lot of digital projects were started, but which tools are really being used? What is the right balance between online and offline support, one on one and mass communication and information?
 Katerina is a co-founder of migration hub network and is the head of marketing right now at QoInventures and welcome and here's your stage. Thank you very much. As you already mentioned, I have two more people with me on stage, which I will introduce in a minute, which is my friends Rafi and Kashif. Because I'm going to talk about the rebalancing of offline and online integration, I'm not going to talk about what integration means or whatever, if it's a good term to use or not, but I would like for them to share their stories, what online offline tools they were using and what they kind of see as where we have to proceed towards. So for me, when I got into the whole topic and you saw Paula on stage before, actually last summer I was part of the crew of the first start of vote and the reason I actually went there is because when Paula called me up, she said, hey, we're going to build digital tools for refugees and myself coming from a start-up background, I thought, okay, of course, digital tools are the solution because they're super scalable and therefore we only have to implement them once and then they're going to solve a lot. So when we went to Samos, we wanted to not only build digital tools but also learn from the people who are there, which is why we of course applied methodology like design thinking, whatever, which involved being out there helping people and learning about their needs. And what we learned back then is apart from all the other things they needed is one thing that they're liking is information. So for us, the consequences were that we built an information platform. It's still out there. It's not really up to date anymore, but I mean, that's part of the issue if you're dealing with information. So for me, the key that I found there is you have to talk to people to figure out what their needs are and therefore build solutions which they really need and not something that came up in our minds thinking that somebody else needs. What I learned when we were coming back, and that was last September, so I guess we can say there was a huge enthusiasm back then, a huge hype. A lot of people getting involved for various reasons, and which was of course very good that so many people got involved, but it also meant that a lot of things were being built, not only online, but also offline. A lot of apps were being built. And what we realized when we came back is that a lot of people are working on a lot of things, and a lot of people are working on similar things, not only all over Europe, but also all over Germany or all over Berlin. And quite often people don't really know what everyone else is doing. What we also saw is that a lot of these tools are being built without ever involving those whom they are built for, in this case newcomers or refugees. And what I also realized is that there's different kind of tools that are being built or different needs that need to be fulfilled. Some of them are very short term, which meant when we were in Samos, of course it was crisis response, meaning that the needs of the people were kind of similar, meaning they just arrived in Europe, they were in need of certain things like food and water, information, access to electricity, access to clothes, access to internet. But this is only a very short term solution that you can build then, and it's kind of attracting or it's answering a need that the masses have. So there's one solution for all, but if you move along the different steps, you realize at some point that the needs in the mid and the long term get more diverse, which means there is not one solution for everyone. And a lot of the more online tools or digital tools that were built last year were really addressing these crisis response topics and were really addressing a solution one fits all. And it's not only about where people are coming from, that you can't put everyone in one part, not everyone from Syria is the same, not everyone has the same needs. Fatuma before was talking about what females needs, it's different what men need, it's different what kids need, and it's also very personal, depending on what kind of personality you have. And I will share a story about that in a minute. So I still see a lot of things being started which do not involve the users. And I find it a bit funny that these days when everyone is talking about user-centered design and I believe Rocket is not investing in any company that's not done some user research before, they're still especially also from big corporates, but also from a lot of our ministries, a lot of things being done for refugees who never involved refugees along the way. So the other thing that one can see which I find funny that a lot of people build tools for refugees, online tools, but on the other hand at some very specific points there are no tools at all. For example, if you go to Laguizo, the process there is still not very digital, which means somebody could focus on that. I know it's very hard to do so, but just thinking about that a solution for refugees does not only always mean that you build an app for a refugee, but it can also mean that you're building an app for an organization or for the volunteers. So one example that I wanted to give is when it comes to legal, to make it a bit more concrete. The all of our ministries have information on their website of quite often also addressing refugees, which means it's in Arabic, it's in Pashto, whatever, but it's even hard for us Germans to understand what's going on there, which also looks like that legal information is also once again a one fits all and maybe Rafi and Kashif can share in a minute that it's very, the issues are very individual, which means there is not one legal status for everyone, but it's really based on the individual story. I have a friend that I actually met, I met his brother on Samos when we were there last summer, he's a former lawyer or he studied law in Syria, and he kind of knew what that language is like, and so he really looked into things, but everything he does is he's looking things up and then he's calling me or somebody else to check if he really understood correctly. So at some point I asked him whether it's making sense for him to actually read all that information online, he's like, basically not because I'd rather talk to you about it or talk to another friend about it to explain to me what's going on, because I don't really trust the information I get there because I'm never sure if I understood correctly. So there are people, for example, from refugee law clinic, it's law students from all over Germany who come together to, they specify in immigration law to actually consult refugees who come here for free, meaning they are doing that one-on-one, sometimes they're doing meetings where on a specific topic, so people can come say, okay, I'm in the beginning of applying for asylum, so what is it, what do I need to do? But they're doing it one-on-one, they're not trying to put a manual together saying, hey, this is handing it out, this is all the information you need. What they digitize is actually a manual for the people working for them, which means basically for the German lawyers, so they kind of know what they need to tell people. So this is one example where you can see one might think that the legal issue is very scalable because it's all the same, but it's very individual, and in this case it makes much more sense to condense the information for those who are helping and for those who it's actually for. Paula mentioned before, and I was also introduced a way that we founded MigrationUp together as a place where people and initiatives and also refugees can come together and cooperate and create synergies, so this place still exists, and like for half a year, for over than half a year, we're bringing people together on a regular basis because we realize if people don't come together in person, they can connect online and join Facebook groups as much as they want, but basically they have to come together to join forces. And to mention maybe a few of these initiatives that are combining that offline and online component, and I saw that somebody in the back from Vfugee is sitting here, for example, Vfugee is an online tool, it's a Q&A platform where refugees can ask questions, and they collect questions and the very general questions, you can follow in a thread, so maybe you look in there, look them up and you see that, oh, my question has already been asked and it has been answered, maybe I find my answer there or I just ask that question again and it's actually people answering, which means it's an online tool but it's very direct communication. Another very much online tool which was not aiming at refugees but actually at the volunteers is a volunteer planner, some people might know about that, which was trying to build a tool so all the organizations can actually organize their volunteers, which has been super successful. In this case, an online tool was the perfect answer but it's helping refugees but it's not for refugees in this case. Some other very offline solutions but which are still scaling is these initiatives which are called Start With A Friend or über den Telleran kochen, which are both aiming at bringing people together, the way that they are scaling is not because they are building something online but they kind of created blueprints out of the work that we are doing here in Berlin and scaling it all over Germany and all over Europe at the moment, which means they wrote a manual and they are training people and so this idea spreads without it having to be online. I told you that I wanted to introduce my guests here and I would love for Rafi to come up here, Rafi and I met a while ago last October, I believe, people share in a minute how we met and can you come up? Rafi is from Gaza, so from Palestine and maybe you can actually share the story how we met because I think it explains very well how you were actually using online tools when you came here. It's working? Yeah. Hello again. My name is Rafi, I'm from Gaza, so like before year and a half when I came here, before I came to Europe, it just took me three days to decide to be in Europe. So first day, okay, I'm going to be a refugee in Europe. All right, so I search everywhere, Facebook, websites, people asking people how to go there, how to be in Europe. The second day, okay, which city I want. There is like Greece, Sweden, like many countries, it's like everyone, you can't travel everywhere. It's like for me, it's very exciting because like from Middle East or from Gaza, it's hard really to travel everywhere. So it took me one day to choose, then I choose to be in Germany and Berlin. The third day, I start to check where and how, how can I do there. So I found this application called Vamos and when I came to Germany, I start like it's about application showing some events in Facebook and order it by time, by place. So for me, like every day when I'm in Berlin, every day in the morning, I check, like do my research, I'm starting going, I bought a bicycle, so I'm driving everywhere from eight until 12, then I came back to my home. So it's like for three months. So I'm moving a lot and I meet a lot of people. Then I meet a friend by just in Facebook, someone she wants help with her boat, someone to paint, then okay, I want to do it. Because like for me, I spend a lot of time not allowed to work, not allowed to travel. So I felt I don't need a permission to work. I don't need to have just paper, just think, it's not about like okay, I'm an engineer. I should be an engineer. No, it's hard. So I want to do something. Then I met my friend, Kristin, then we friend, then she invited me to event. Katarina was there. She talked to Katarina, Rafi, he wants a job. Please give him a job. I said, yes, I have. So then we start to work together and we did a lot of projects. I start to, I'm doing many stuff. So I learned from just start with small application. But the thing is, as far as I remember that the application you were using is not for refugees, right? It's a tourist application. It's a tourist application. So why did you use that one and not a refugee app or whatever? Believe me or not, until now I don't know any application for refugees. Yeah, it's like, why, I don't know, like why, okay guys, like if you have an application for white people, you're going to use it? Like yeah, why should I have an application for refugees? It's like, yeah, well, I feel like I'm normal. I can read English. I can search. Like why I should need something for me. I don't want to feel like I'm special or different. I'm also like, I have a knowledge to be normal. Yeah, awesome. Thanks Rafi. So to maybe summarize a little bit what Rafi just said and what I also wanted to point out is what I learned over the last year is basically that the app is not the answer, which doesn't mean that digital tools are not part of the whole integration or tackling the refugee crisis process. But it's definitely just one part of the solution and can never be the whole one. And I also think there needs to be a stronger focus building like digital tools for those who support instead of for those who are actually seeking for information. So I was very glad for example when the guy who did the refugee law clinic at some point shared his document with me, which had like all these immigration law issues on there, because then I could tell my friends being like, hey, this is where you have to go and actually connect people. And another example that I want to give, and I mean I was introduced that as head of marketing at Kyron. So just briefly I don't want this to be about Kyron, but as an example, what Kyron does is we enable refugees to get access to high education. And the way we do that is by having them study online wherever they are for two years. We do that because we have partnerships with MOOC providers, massive open online courses. We gather all that content and have four study tracks at the moment. Kashif is actually studying engineering with us. We have business administration and computer science and social sciences. And after those one to two years that they studied with us online, we transfer them to a partner university so they get a credit degree from a partner university. One other thing that we do is something that's called Direct Academics. And actually one of our teachers this morning shared a very lovely post on Facebook and that's why I included it. So Direct Academics works in that way that he's a teacher. I think he's a professor in Aachen. And he, I think 10 to 15 people signed up to his course. I don't know if you studied with Burkard. I don't know. He's doing some engineering stuff, but maybe at some point, yeah, you know him. So for example, he was teaching a lesson last night. So people are joining in via Skype and he shared this morning that he had people in there from Syria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Thailand, Bangladesh. They were based in Italy, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and Austria. So in this way, this is a beautiful online tool, but on the other hand, it enables very direct interaction. So because I can talk a lot about how Kyron works, but to give you a better insight on how it works, I would actually ask Kashif to share some of his stories. And the first one would be how did you hear about Kyron and when did you get involved? Hello, everyone. Yeah, when I was coming from Pakistan, I started my journey. So I met with a Canadian girl who was a social worker in Greece in the camp. So we discussed about our future planning and what my future and my destiny and what I want to do. So when I arrived, so she messaged me that there is such a platform which can help you and you can access to higher education. So then I found that it is Kyron and it was like a new life and new identity for me to be a student, not to be only a refugee. And I really dislike the word refugee because, but in fact, every child is a refugee because when we are born, we come from the new world with no status. But then our parents give us a status. So what year are you with Kyron for half a year now? So maybe you can give people an insight in how your life as a student looks like. Oh, yeah, sure. When we came, we were just lost. So when we got the platform, then I asked myself, you have only two options, do or die. So I prefer to do. So now I'm doing. And I prefer engineering because engineers are the architect of the world because they decorate and modelize the world. And well, the world started with the wheel and now has become a global village. And I would say something about digital integration. Kyron is a transition between digital and traditional because it digitalized as we know that in the era of modernism, robotics, three tech and artificial intelligence, ignorance is not obligation. It's an option. So for youths, we all refugees. When we came here, we had nothing, but we are thankful to you people. You give us love, respect and a meaningful life. So now we are one nation new up Blaston for the German shaft, Zondens by the wagon on Soudine. So we are also part of you. We also want to come in front and to participate and to contribute to the host community. Thank you so much. So kind of to summarize what this whole talk is about and what Kashif and Rafi were sharing is that basically the idea is that we are somehow building bridges. Kyron in this case is building a bridge between being a refugee and not having the ability to actually access university, but always bridging that to for that perspective change that Kashif was talking about because we want our students to be students and they are not refugee students, but they are students. And we are not only doing that online, but also offline and that's something, this whole mix that I was also emphasizing with the different examples, what seems to be the right solution. I wanted to share data about how many online solutions are out there, how many offline solutions are out there, but unfortunately there is not really data out there to see how many projects have been started. I can tell from the experience of being involved for almost a year now that I have seen anonymous all over Europe, all over the world. I'm happy to see also a lot of friends that I met all over Europe, friends from Italy sitting here. So we met last year, for example, in Rome where we were working on things. There were people from South America, some people from Tel Aviv joining in right now who we are also working between Berlin and Tel Aviv, so it's obviously a global issue that can be solved globally, but quite often taking into account the needs of the very specific location and the needs of the individuals. So some very small data that I can share is a friend of mine who did research for a political building, she had a look at 40 different apps for refugees, she was testing them, how much they were being used, she did interviews, but also looked at download rates and all that kind of stuff, and it's kind of the results that Raffi was already giving that very few of them are actually being used. Another maybe example, another number that I can give, there are people from an initiative called Social Collective, they are looking more at bringing everyone together, they also did some research and they figured that all of the initiatives they interviewed, so in this case I'm talking about initiatives for refugees, that 67% of them don't have refugees in their core team, they might involve them sometimes, but they would love to involve more people but don't really know how. So this is the other issue we are tackling. So I guess for the final, I would just love the two of you to come up here. Again what I would like to ask you is what do you think is missing and what do you like to pass on to those who are trying to build tools or trying to support refugees, though I know that the term is not very much liked. I think human life is always problematic, but the main thing is your attitude, how you deal with it, because success is not a scale, it's an attitude. So we have a lot of opportunities, we have a lot of things, a lot of tools, but we just have to utilize, we just have to take advantage of. And the main thing we need that is mutual understanding and the main thing is harmony, because both of us, we have to work together and we can make the Germany proud and let's make our generations proud, I would say. And the main thing is to work in a teamwork and man can do anything. And the impossible word is no word, there's no room for failure, only the success is our destiny, just make it. Awesome Rafi. Anyone say, Grace, an anatomy? Yeah, most people saw Grace anatomy. Yeah, really smiling, but very shy. There's a scene like doctors from Syria, they want to make an operation, so the American doctor, they told them, please, simulate what you're doing in Syria. So they told them, okay, there's a lot of tools, we didn't use it, just two things. And there is no electricity, we just have a flashlight and we make a lot of operation. So this is what the idea, people don't have a lot of tools, but they're doing a lot of stuff. Can you imagine if you give them tools, if you give them like the same people here, what they're going to do? Thank you very much. Thanks, you guys. Yeah, you should say. No, you should stay here. You should stay here. So the final words that I want to say is, I guess, if you look at the numbers, how many people came and how many things were done, we have a lot of numbers and a lot of data, but sometimes we forget that there are a lot of stories behind that. And I believe telling the individual story is not only because it's such a nice story to tell, but it's the way how we engage. And I personally am very happy to have Kashif and Rafi as my friends here. Not only that Kashif is also a student with us and Rafi is working with me and I heavily rely on his work in the marketing team at Karan, but it's also about coming together and being friends. And I believe the way to move forward is, yes, we can use a lot of online and digital to start the conversation or to keep it up to date, I guess, as everyone else is doing, how you stay connected with friends all over Facebook. But at the end of the day, it's about meeting in person and finding that way to learn from one another. And I believe that that's what it's all about. So we are family. Yes, we are family. That's right. So thank you guys so much for also being here and sharing your story. And yeah, thank you guys for listening and I hope we somehow start that conversation about how what the right or what a good balance is between the online and the offline. Not only when it comes to the integrating refugees using two terms that I actually don't like, but it's just what we're talking about. But also, yeah, how we can all engage together. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
 Katerina is a co-founder of migration hub network and is the head of marketing right  now at QoInventures and welcome and here's your stage.  Thank you very much.  As you already mentioned, I have two more people with me on stage, which I will introduce  in a minute, which is my friends Rafi and Kashif.  Because I'm going to talk about the rebalancing of offline and online integration, I'm not  going to talk about what integration means or whatever, if it's a good term to use or  not, but I would like for them to share their stories, what online offline tools they were  using and what they kind of see as where we have to proceed towards.  So for me, when I got into the whole topic and you saw Paula on stage before, actually  last summer I was part of the crew of the first start of vote and the reason I actually  went there is because when Paula called me up, she said, hey, we're going to build digital  tools for refugees and myself coming from a start-up background, I thought, okay, of  course, digital tools are the solution because they're super scalable and therefore we only  have to implement them once and then they're going to solve a lot.  So when we went to Samos, we wanted to not only build digital tools but also learn from  the people who are there, which is why we of course applied methodology like design thinking,  whatever, which involved being out there helping people and learning about their needs.  And what we learned back then is apart from all the other things they needed is one thing  that they're liking is information.  So for us, the consequences were that we built an information platform.  It's still out there.  It's not really up to date anymore, but I mean, that's part of the issue if you're dealing  with information.  So for me, the key that I found there is you have to talk to people to figure out what  their needs are and therefore build solutions which they really need and not something that  came up in our minds thinking that somebody else needs.  What I learned when we were coming back, and that was last September, so I guess we can  say there was a huge enthusiasm back then, a huge hype.  A lot of people getting involved for various reasons, and which was of course very good  that so many people got involved, but it also meant that a lot of things were being built,  not only online, but also offline.  A lot of apps were being built.  And what we realized when we came back is that a lot of people are working on a lot  of things, and a lot of people are working on similar things, not only all over Europe,  but also all over Germany or all over Berlin.  And quite often people don't really know what everyone else is doing.  What we also saw is that a lot of these tools are being built without ever involving those  whom they are built for, in this case newcomers or refugees.  And what I also realized is that there's different kind of tools that are being built or different  needs that need to be fulfilled.  Some of them are very short term, which meant when we were in Samos, of course it was crisis  response, meaning that the needs of the people were kind of similar, meaning they just arrived  in Europe, they were in need of certain things like food and water, information, access to  electricity, access to clothes, access to internet.  But this is only a very short term solution that you can build then, and it's kind of  attracting or it's answering a need that the masses have.  So there's one solution for all, but if you move along the different steps, you realize  at some point that the needs in the mid and the long term get more diverse, which means  there is not one solution for everyone.  And a lot of the more online tools or digital tools that were built last year were really  addressing these crisis response topics and were really addressing a solution one fits  all.  And it's not only about where people are coming from, that you can't put everyone in one  part, not everyone from Syria is the same, not everyone has the same needs.  Fatuma before was talking about what females needs, it's different what men need, it's  different what kids need, and it's also very personal, depending on what kind of personality  you have.  And I will share a story about that in a minute.  So I still see a lot of things being started which do not involve the users.  And I find it a bit funny that these days when everyone is talking about user-centered  design and I believe Rocket is not investing in any company that's not done some user research  before, they're still especially also from big corporates, but also from a lot of our  ministries, a lot of things being done for refugees who never involved refugees along  the way.  So the other thing that one can see which I find funny that a lot of people build tools  for refugees, online tools, but on the other hand at some very specific points there are  no tools at all.  For example, if you go to Laguizo, the process there is still not very digital, which means  somebody could focus on that.  I know it's very hard to do so, but just thinking about that a solution for refugees does not  only always mean that you build an app for a refugee, but it can also mean that you're  building an app for an organization or for the volunteers.  So one example that I wanted to give is when it comes to legal, to make it a bit more concrete.  The all of our ministries have information on their website of quite often also addressing  refugees, which means it's in Arabic, it's in Pashto, whatever, but it's even hard for  us Germans to understand what's going on there, which also looks like that legal information  is also once again a one fits all and maybe Rafi and Kashif can share in a minute that  it's very, the issues are very individual, which means there is not one legal status  for everyone, but it's really based on the individual story.  I have a friend that I actually met, I met his brother on Samos when we were there last  summer, he's a former lawyer or he studied law in Syria, and he kind of knew what that  language is like, and so he really looked into things, but everything he does is he's  looking things up and then he's calling me or somebody else to check if he really understood  correctly.  So at some point I asked him whether it's making sense for him to actually read all  that information online, he's like, basically not because I'd rather talk to you about it  or talk to another friend about it to explain to me what's going on, because I don't really  trust the information I get there because I'm never sure if I understood correctly.  So there are people, for example, from refugee law clinic, it's law students from all over  Germany who come together to, they specify in immigration law to actually consult refugees  who come here for free, meaning they are doing that one-on-one, sometimes they're doing meetings  where on a specific topic, so people can come say, okay, I'm in the beginning of applying  for asylum, so what is it, what do I need to do?  But they're doing it one-on-one, they're not trying to put a manual together saying,  hey, this is handing it out, this is all the information you need.  What they digitize is actually a manual for the people working for them, which means basically  for the German lawyers, so they kind of know what they need to tell people.  So this is one example where you can see one might think that the legal issue is very scalable  because it's all the same, but it's very individual, and in this case it makes much more sense  to condense the information for those who are helping and for those who it's actually  for.  Paula mentioned before, and I was also introduced a way that we founded MigrationUp together  as a place where people and initiatives and also refugees can come together and cooperate  and create synergies, so this place still exists, and like for half a year, for over  than half a year, we're bringing people together on a regular basis because we realize if people  don't come together in person, they can connect online and join Facebook groups as much as  they want, but basically they have to come together to join forces.  And to mention maybe a few of these initiatives that are combining that offline and online  component, and I saw that somebody in the back from Vfugee is sitting here, for example,  Vfugee is an online tool, it's a Q&A platform where refugees can ask questions, and they  collect questions and the very general questions, you can follow in a thread, so maybe you look  in there, look them up and you see that, oh, my question has already been asked and it  has been answered, maybe I find my answer there or I just ask that question again and  it's actually people answering, which means it's an online tool but it's very direct communication.  Another very much online tool which was not aiming at refugees but actually at the volunteers  is a volunteer planner, some people might know about that, which was trying to build  a tool so all the organizations can actually organize their volunteers, which has been  super successful.  In this case, an online tool was the perfect answer but it's helping refugees but it's  not for refugees in this case.  Some other very offline solutions but which are still scaling is these initiatives which  are called Start With A Friend or über den Telleran kochen, which are both aiming at bringing  people together, the way that they are scaling is not because they are building something  online but they kind of created blueprints out of the work that we are doing here in  Berlin and scaling it all over Germany and all over Europe at the moment, which means  they wrote a manual and they are training people and so this idea spreads without it  having to be online.  I told you that I wanted to introduce my guests here and I would love for Rafi to come up  here, Rafi and I met a while ago last October, I believe, people share in a minute how we  met and can you come up?  Rafi is from Gaza, so from Palestine and maybe you can actually share the story how  we met because I think it explains very well how you were actually using online tools when  you came here.  It's working?  Yeah.  Hello again.  My name is Rafi, I'm from Gaza, so like before year and a half when I came here, before  I came to Europe, it just took me three days to decide to be in Europe.  So first day, okay, I'm going to be a refugee in Europe.  All right, so I search everywhere, Facebook, websites, people asking people how to go there,  how to be in Europe.  The second day, okay, which city I want.  There is like Greece, Sweden, like many countries, it's like everyone, you can't travel everywhere.  It's like for me, it's very exciting because like from Middle East or from Gaza, it's hard  really to travel everywhere.  So it took me one day to choose, then I choose to be in Germany and Berlin.  The third day, I start to check where and how, how can I do there.  So I found this application called Vamos and when I came to Germany, I start like it's  about application showing some events in Facebook and order it by time, by place.  So for me, like every day when I'm in Berlin, every day in the morning, I check, like do  my research, I'm starting going, I bought a bicycle, so I'm driving everywhere from eight  until 12, then I came back to my home.  So it's like for three months.  So I'm moving a lot and I meet a lot of people.  Then I meet a friend by just in Facebook, someone she wants help with her boat, someone  to paint, then okay, I want to do it.  Because like for me, I spend a lot of time not allowed to work, not allowed to travel.  So I felt I don't need a permission to work.  I don't need to have just paper, just think, it's not about like okay, I'm an engineer.  I should be an engineer.  No, it's hard.  So I want to do something.  Then I met my friend, Kristin, then we friend, then she invited me to event.  Katarina was there.  She talked to Katarina, Rafi, he wants a job.  Please give him a job.  I said, yes, I have.  So then we start to work together and we did a lot of projects.  I start to, I'm doing many stuff.  So I learned from just start with small application.  But the thing is, as far as I remember that the application you were using is not for  refugees, right?  It's a tourist application.  It's a tourist application.  So why did you use that one and not a refugee app or whatever?  Believe me or not, until now I don't know any application for refugees.  Yeah, it's like, why, I don't know, like why, okay guys, like if you have an application  for white people, you're going to use it?  Like yeah, why should I have an application for refugees?  It's like, yeah, well, I feel like I'm normal.  I can read English.  I can search.  Like why I should need something for me.  I don't want to feel like I'm special or different.  I'm also like, I have a knowledge to be normal.  Yeah, awesome.  Thanks Rafi.  So to maybe summarize a little bit what Rafi just said and what I also wanted to point  out is what I learned over the last year is basically that the app is not the answer,  which doesn't mean that digital tools are not part of the whole integration or tackling  the refugee crisis process.  But it's definitely just one part of the solution and can never be the whole one.  And I also think there needs to be a stronger focus building like digital tools for those  who support instead of for those who are actually seeking for information.  So I was very glad for example when the guy who did the refugee law clinic at some point  shared his document with me, which had like all these immigration law issues on there,  because then I could tell my friends being like, hey, this is where you have to go and  actually connect people.  And another example that I want to give, and I mean I was introduced that as head of marketing  at Kyron.  So just briefly I don't want this to be about Kyron, but as an example, what Kyron does is  we enable refugees to get access to high education.  And the way we do that is by having them study online wherever they are for two years.  We do that because we have partnerships with MOOC providers, massive open online courses.  We gather all that content and have four study tracks at the moment.  Kashif is actually studying engineering with us.  We have business administration and computer science and social sciences.  And after those one to two years that they studied with us online, we transfer them to  a partner university so they get a credit degree from a partner university.  One other thing that we do is something that's called Direct Academics.  And actually one of our teachers this morning shared a very lovely post on Facebook and  that's why I included it.  So Direct Academics works in that way that he's a teacher.  I think he's a professor in Aachen.  And he, I think 10 to 15 people signed up to his course.  I don't know if you studied with Burkard.  I don't know.  He's doing some engineering stuff, but maybe at some point, yeah, you know him.  So for example, he was teaching a lesson last night.  So people are joining in via Skype and he shared this morning that he had people in there  from Syria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Thailand, Bangladesh.  They were based in Italy, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and Austria.  So in this way, this is a beautiful online tool, but on the other hand, it enables very  direct interaction.  So because I can talk a lot about how Kyron works, but to give you a better insight on  how it works, I would actually ask Kashif to share some of his stories.  And the first one would be how did you hear about Kyron and when did you get involved?  Hello, everyone.  Yeah, when I was coming from Pakistan, I started my journey.  So I met with a Canadian girl who was a social worker in Greece in the camp.  So we discussed about our future planning and what my future and my destiny and what  I want to do.  So when I arrived, so she messaged me that there is such a platform which can help you  and you can access to higher education.  So then I found that it is Kyron and it was like a new life and new identity for me to  be a student, not to be only a refugee.  And I really dislike the word refugee because, but in fact, every child is a refugee because  when we are born, we come from the new world with no status.  But then our parents give us a status.  So what year are you with Kyron for half a year now?  So maybe you can give people an insight in how your life as a student looks like.  Oh, yeah, sure.  When we came, we were just lost.  So when we got the platform, then I asked myself, you have only two options, do or die.  So I prefer to do.  So now I'm doing.  And I prefer engineering because engineers are the architect of the world because they  decorate and modelize the world.  And well, the world started with the wheel and now has become a global village.  And I would say something about digital integration.  Kyron is a transition between digital and traditional because it digitalized as we know that in  the era of modernism, robotics, three tech and artificial intelligence, ignorance is  not obligation.  It's an option.  So for youths, we all refugees.  When we came here, we had nothing, but we are thankful to you people.  You give us love, respect and a meaningful life.  So now we are one nation new up Blaston for the German shaft, Zondens by the wagon on  Soudine.  So we are also part of you.  We also want to come in front and to participate and to contribute to the host community.  Thank you so much.  So kind of to summarize what this whole talk is about and what Kashif and Rafi were sharing  is that basically the idea is that we are somehow building bridges.  Kyron in this case is building a bridge between being a refugee and not having the ability  to actually access university, but always bridging that to for that perspective change  that Kashif was talking about because we want our students to be students and they are not  refugee students, but they are students.  And we are not only doing that online, but also offline and that's something, this whole  mix that I was also emphasizing with the different examples, what seems to be the right solution.  I wanted to share data about how many online solutions are out there, how many offline  solutions are out there, but unfortunately there is not really data out there to see  how many projects have been started.  I can tell from the experience of being involved for almost a year now that I have seen anonymous  all over Europe, all over the world.  I'm happy to see also a lot of friends that I met all over Europe, friends from Italy  sitting here.  So we met last year, for example, in Rome where we were working on things.  There were people from South America, some people from Tel Aviv joining in right now who  we are also working between Berlin and Tel Aviv, so it's obviously a global issue that  can be solved globally, but quite often taking into account the needs of the very specific  location and the needs of the individuals.  So some very small data that I can share is a friend of mine who did research for a  political building, she had a look at 40 different apps for refugees, she was testing  them, how much they were being used, she did interviews, but also looked at download rates  and all that kind of stuff, and it's kind of the results that Raffi was already giving  that very few of them are actually being used.  Another maybe example, another number that I can give, there are people from an initiative  called Social Collective, they are looking more at bringing everyone together, they also  did some research and they figured that all of the initiatives they interviewed, so in  this case I'm talking about initiatives for refugees, that 67% of them don't have refugees  in their core team, they might involve them sometimes, but they would love to involve  more people but don't really know how.  So this is the other issue we are tackling.  So I guess for the final, I would just love the two of you to come up here.  Again what I would like to ask you is what do you think is missing and what do you like  to pass on to those who are trying to build tools or trying to support refugees, though  I know that the term is not very much liked.  I think human life is always problematic, but the main thing is your attitude, how you  deal with it, because success is not a scale, it's an attitude.  So we have a lot of opportunities, we have a lot of things, a lot of tools, but we just  have to utilize, we just have to take advantage of.  And the main thing we need that is mutual understanding and the main thing is harmony,  because both of us, we have to work together and we can make the Germany proud and let's  make our generations proud, I would say.  And the main thing is to work in a teamwork and man can do anything.  And the impossible word is no word, there's no room for failure, only the success is our  destiny, just make it.  Awesome Rafi.  Anyone say, Grace, an anatomy?  Yeah, most people saw Grace anatomy.  Yeah, really smiling, but very shy.  There's a scene like doctors from Syria, they want to make an operation, so the American  doctor, they told them, please, simulate what you're doing in Syria.  So they told them, okay, there's a lot of tools, we didn't use it, just two things.  And there is no electricity, we just have a flashlight and we make a lot of operation.  So this is what the idea, people don't have a lot of tools, but they're doing a lot of  stuff.  Can you imagine if you give them tools, if you give them like the same people here, what  they're going to do?  Thank you very much.  Thanks, you guys.  Yeah, you should say.  No, you should stay here.  You should stay here.  So the final words that I want to say is, I guess, if you look at the numbers, how many  people came and how many things were done, we have a lot of numbers and a lot of data,  but sometimes we forget that there are a lot of stories behind that.  And I believe telling the individual story is not only because it's such a nice story  to tell, but it's the way how we engage.  And I personally am very happy to have Kashif and Rafi as my friends here.  Not only that Kashif is also a student with us and Rafi is working with me and I heavily  rely on his work in the marketing team at Karan, but it's also about coming together  and being friends.  And I believe the way to move forward is, yes, we can use a lot of online and digital  to start the conversation or to keep it up to date, I guess, as everyone else is doing,  how you stay connected with friends all over Facebook.  But at the end of the day, it's about meeting in person and finding that way to learn from  one another.  And I believe that that's what it's all about.  So we are family.  Yes, we are family.  That's right.  So thank you guys so much for also being here and sharing your story.  And yeah, thank you guys for listening and I hope we somehow start that conversation about  how what the right or what a good balance is between the online and the offline.  Not only when it comes to the integrating refugees using two terms that I actually don't  like, but it's just what we're talking about.  But also, yeah, how we can all engage together.  Thanks a lot.  Thank you very much.  Thank you very much.
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Katerina is a co-founder of migration hub network and is the head of marketing right now at QoInventures and welcome and here's your stage. Thank you very much. As you already mentioned, I have two more people with me on stage, which I will introduce in a minute, which is my friends Rafi and Kashif. Because I'm going to talk about the rebalancing of offline and online integration, I'm not going to talk about what integration means or whatever, if it's a good term to use or not, but I would like for them to share their stories, what online offline tools they were using and what they kind of see as where we have to proceed towards. So for me, when I got into the whole topic and you saw Paula on stage before, actually last summer I was part of the crew of the first start of vote and the reason I actually went there is because when Paula called me up, she said, hey, we're going to build digital tools for refugees and myself coming from a start-up background, I thought, okay, of course, digital tools are the solution because they're super scalable and therefore we only have to implement them once and then they're going to solve a lot. So when we went to Samos, we wanted to not only build digital tools but also learn from the people who are there, which is why we of course applied methodology like design thinking, whatever, which involved being out there helping people and learning about their needs. And what we learned back then is apart from all the other things they needed is one thing that they're liking is information. So for us, the consequences were that we built an information platform. It's still out there. It's not really up to date anymore, but I mean, that's part of the issue if you're dealing with information. So for me, the key that I found there is you have to talk to people to figure out what their needs are and therefore build solutions which they really need and not something that came up in our minds thinking that somebody else needs. What I learned when we were coming back, and that was last September, so I guess we can say there was a huge enthusiasm back then, a huge hype. A lot of people getting involved for various reasons, and which was of course very good that so many people got involved, but it also meant that a lot of things were being built, not only online, but also offline. A lot of apps were being built. And what we realized when we came back is that a lot of people are working on a lot of things, and a lot of people are working on similar things, not only all over Europe, but also all over Germany or all over Berlin. And quite often people don't really know what everyone else is doing. What we also saw is that a lot of these tools are being built without ever involving those whom they are built for, in this case newcomers or refugees. And what I also realized is that there's different kind of tools that are being built or different needs that need to be fulfilled. Some of them are very short term, which meant when we were in Samos, of course it was crisis response, meaning that the needs of the people were kind of similar, meaning they just arrived in Europe, they were in need of certain things like food and water, information, access to electricity, access to clothes, access to internet. But this is only a very short term solution that you can build then, and it's kind of attracting or it's answering a need that the masses have. So there's one solution for all, but if you move along the different steps, you realize at some point that the needs in the mid and the long term get more diverse, which means there is not one solution for everyone. And a lot of the more online tools or digital tools that were built last year were really addressing these crisis response topics and were really addressing a solution one fits all. And it's not only about where people are coming from, that you can't put everyone in one part, not everyone from Syria is the same, not everyone has the same needs. Fatuma before was talking about what females needs, it's different what men need, it's different what kids need, and it's also very personal, depending on what kind of personality you have. And I will share a story about that in a minute. So I still see a lot of things being started which do not involve the users. And I find it a bit funny that these days when everyone is talking about user-centered design and I believe Rocket is not investing in any company that's not done some user research before, they're still especially also from big corporates, but also from a lot of our ministries, a lot of things being done for refugees who never involved refugees along the way. So the other thing that one can see which I find funny that a lot of people build tools for refugees, online tools, but on the other hand at some very specific points there are no tools at all. For example, if you go to Laguizo, the process there is still not very digital, which means somebody could focus on that. I know it's very hard to do so, but just thinking about that a solution for refugees does not only always mean that you build an app for a refugee, but it can also mean that you're building an app for an organization or for the volunteers. So one example that I wanted to give is when it comes to legal, to make it a bit more concrete. The all of our ministries have information on their website of quite often also addressing refugees, which means it's in Arabic, it's in Pashto, whatever, but it's even hard for us Germans to understand what's going on there, which also looks like that legal information is also once again a one fits all and maybe Rafi and Kashif can share in a minute that it's very, the issues are very individual, which means there is not one legal status for everyone, but it's really based on the individual story. I have a friend that I actually met, I met his brother on Samos when we were there last summer, he's a former lawyer or he studied law in Syria, and he kind of knew what that language is like, and so he really looked into things, but everything he does is he's looking things up and then he's calling me or somebody else to check if he really understood correctly. So at some point I asked him whether it's making sense for him to actually read all that information online, he's like, basically not because I'd rather talk to you about it or talk to another friend about it to explain to me what's going on, because I don't really trust the information I get there because I'm never sure if I understood correctly. So there are people, for example, from refugee law clinic, it's law students from all over Germany who come together to, they specify in immigration law to actually consult refugees who come here for free, meaning they are doing that one-on-one, sometimes they're doing meetings where on a specific topic, so people can come say, okay, I'm in the beginning of applying for asylum, so what is it, what do I need to do? But they're doing it one-on-one, they're not trying to put a manual together saying, hey, this is handing it out, this is all the information you need. What they digitize is actually a manual for the people working for them, which means basically for the German lawyers, so they kind of know what they need to tell people. So this is one example where you can see one might think that the legal issue is very scalable because it's all the same, but it's very individual, and in this case it makes much more sense to condense the information for those who are helping and for those who it's actually for. Paula mentioned before, and I was also introduced a way that we founded MigrationUp together as a place where people and initiatives and also refugees can come together and cooperate and create synergies, so this place still exists, and like for half a year, for over than half a year, we're bringing people together on a regular basis because we realize if people don't come together in person, they can connect online and join Facebook groups as much as they want, but basically they have to come together to join forces. And to mention maybe a few of these initiatives that are combining that offline and online component, and I saw that somebody in the back from Vfugee is sitting here, for example, Vfugee is an online tool, it's a Q&A platform where refugees can ask questions, and they collect questions and the very general questions, you can follow in a thread, so maybe you look in there, look them up and you see that, oh, my question has already been asked and it has been answered, maybe I find my answer there or I just ask that question again and it's actually people answering, which means it's an online tool but it's very direct communication. Another very much online tool which was not aiming at refugees but actually at the volunteers is a volunteer planner, some people might know about that, which was trying to build a tool so all the organizations can actually organize their volunteers, which has been super successful. In this case, an online tool was the perfect answer but it's helping refugees but it's not for refugees in this case. Some other very offline solutions but which are still scaling is these initiatives which are called Start With A Friend or über den Telleran kochen, which are both aiming at bringing people together, the way that they are scaling is not because they are building something online but they kind of created blueprints out of the work that we are doing here in Berlin and scaling it all over Germany and all over Europe at the moment, which means they wrote a manual and they are training people and so this idea spreads without it having to be online. I told you that I wanted to introduce my guests here and I would love for Rafi to come up here, Rafi and I met a while ago last October, I believe, people share in a minute how we met and can you come up? Rafi is from Gaza, so from Palestine and maybe you can actually share the story how we met because I think it explains very well how you were actually using online tools when you came here. It's working? Yeah. Hello again. My name is Rafi, I'm from Gaza, so like before year and a half when I came here, before I came to Europe, it just took me three days to decide to be in Europe. So first day, okay, I'm going to be a refugee in Europe. All right, so I search everywhere, Facebook, websites, people asking people how to go there, how to be in Europe. The second day, okay, which city I want. There is like Greece, Sweden, like many countries, it's like everyone, you can't travel everywhere. It's like for me, it's very exciting because like from Middle East or from Gaza, it's hard really to travel everywhere. So it took me one day to choose, then I choose to be in Germany and Berlin. The third day, I start to check where and how, how can I do there. So I found this application called Vamos and when I came to Germany, I start like it's about application showing some events in Facebook and order it by time, by place. So for me, like every day when I'm in Berlin, every day in the morning, I check, like do my research, I'm starting going, I bought a bicycle, so I'm driving everywhere from eight until 12, then I came back to my home. So it's like for three months. So I'm moving a lot and I meet a lot of people. Then I meet a friend by just in Facebook, someone she wants help with her boat, someone to paint, then okay, I want to do it. Because like for me, I spend a lot of time not allowed to work, not allowed to travel. So I felt I don't need a permission to work. I don't need to have just paper, just think, it's not about like okay, I'm an engineer. I should be an engineer. No, it's hard. So I want to do something. Then I met my friend, Kristin, then we friend, then she invited me to event. Katarina was there. She talked to Katarina, Rafi, he wants a job. Please give him a job. I said, yes, I have. So then we start to work together and we did a lot of projects. I start to, I'm doing many stuff. So I learned from just start with small application. But the thing is, as far as I remember that the application you were using is not for refugees, right? It's a tourist application. It's a tourist application. So why did you use that one and not a refugee app or whatever? Believe me or not, until now I don't know any application for refugees. Yeah, it's like, why, I don't know, like why, okay guys, like if you have an application for white people, you're going to use it? Like yeah, why should I have an application for refugees? It's like, yeah, well, I feel like I'm normal. I can read English. I can search. Like why I should need something for me. I don't want to feel like I'm special or different. I'm also like, I have a knowledge to be normal. Yeah, awesome. Thanks Rafi. So to maybe summarize a little bit what Rafi just said and what I also wanted to point out is what I learned over the last year is basically that the app is not the answer, which doesn't mean that digital tools are not part of the whole integration or tackling the refugee crisis process. But it's definitely just one part of the solution and can never be the whole one. And I also think there needs to be a stronger focus building like digital tools for those who support instead of for those who are actually seeking for information. So I was very glad for example when the guy who did the refugee law clinic at some point shared his document with me, which had like all these immigration law issues on there, because then I could tell my friends being like, hey, this is where you have to go and actually connect people. And another example that I want to give, and I mean I was introduced that as head of marketing at Kyron. So just briefly I don't want this to be about Kyron, but as an example, what Kyron does is we enable refugees to get access to high education. And the way we do that is by having them study online wherever they are for two years. We do that because we have partnerships with MOOC providers, massive open online courses. We gather all that content and have four study tracks at the moment. Kashif is actually studying engineering with us. We have business administration and computer science and social sciences. And after those one to two years that they studied with us online, we transfer them to a partner university so they get a credit degree from a partner university. One other thing that we do is something that's called Direct Academics. And actually one of our teachers this morning shared a very lovely post on Facebook and that's why I included it. So Direct Academics works in that way that he's a teacher. I think he's a professor in Aachen. And he, I think 10 to 15 people signed up to his course. I don't know if you studied with Burkard. I don't know. He's doing some engineering stuff, but maybe at some point, yeah, you know him. So for example, he was teaching a lesson last night. So people are joining in via Skype and he shared this morning that he had people in there from Syria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Thailand, Bangladesh. They were based in Italy, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and Austria. So in this way, this is a beautiful online tool, but on the other hand, it enables very direct interaction. So because I can talk a lot about how Kyron works, but to give you a better insight on how it works, I would actually ask Kashif to share some of his stories. And the first one would be how did you hear about Kyron and when did you get involved? Hello, everyone. Yeah, when I was coming from Pakistan, I started my journey. So I met with a Canadian girl who was a social worker in Greece in the camp. So we discussed about our future planning and what my future and my destiny and what I want to do. So when I arrived, so she messaged me that there is such a platform which can help you and you can access to higher education. So then I found that it is Kyron and it was like a new life and new identity for me to be a student, not to be only a refugee. And I really dislike the word refugee because, but in fact, every child is a refugee because when we are born, we come from the new world with no status. But then our parents give us a status. So what year are you with Kyron for half a year now? So maybe you can give people an insight in how your life as a student looks like. Oh, yeah, sure. When we came, we were just lost. So when we got the platform, then I asked myself, you have only two options, do or die. So I prefer to do. So now I'm doing. And I prefer engineering because engineers are the architect of the world because they decorate and modelize the world. And well, the world started with the wheel and now has become a global village. And I would say something about digital integration. Kyron is a transition between digital and traditional because it digitalized as we know that in the era of modernism, robotics, three tech and artificial intelligence, ignorance is not obligation. It's an option. So for youths, we all refugees. When we came here, we had nothing, but we are thankful to you people. You give us love, respect and a meaningful life. So now we are one nation new up Blaston for the German shaft, Zondens by the wagon on Soudine. So we are also part of you. We also want to come in front and to participate and to contribute to the host community. Thank you so much. So kind of to summarize what this whole talk is about and what Kashif and Rafi were sharing is that basically the idea is that we are somehow building bridges. Kyron in this case is building a bridge between being a refugee and not having the ability to actually access university, but always bridging that to for that perspective change that Kashif was talking about because we want our students to be students and they are not refugee students, but they are students. And we are not only doing that online, but also offline and that's something, this whole mix that I was also emphasizing with the different examples, what seems to be the right solution. I wanted to share data about how many online solutions are out there, how many offline solutions are out there, but unfortunately there is not really data out there to see how many projects have been started. I can tell from the experience of being involved for almost a year now that I have seen anonymous all over Europe, all over the world. I'm happy to see also a lot of friends that I met all over Europe, friends from Italy sitting here. So we met last year, for example, in Rome where we were working on things. There were people from South America, some people from Tel Aviv joining in right now who we are also working between Berlin and Tel Aviv, so it's obviously a global issue that can be solved globally, but quite often taking into account the needs of the very specific location and the needs of the individuals. So some very small data that I can share is a friend of mine who did research for a political building, she had a look at 40 different apps for refugees, she was testing them, how much they were being used, she did interviews, but also looked at download rates and all that kind of stuff, and it's kind of the results that Raffi was already giving that very few of them are actually being used. Another maybe example, another number that I can give, there are people from an initiative called Social Collective, they are looking more at bringing everyone together, they also did some research and they figured that all of the initiatives they interviewed, so in this case I'm talking about initiatives for refugees, that 67% of them don't have refugees in their core team, they might involve them sometimes, but they would love to involve more people but don't really know how. So this is the other issue we are tackling. So I guess for the final, I would just love the two of you to come up here. Again what I would like to ask you is what do you think is missing and what do you like to pass on to those who are trying to build tools or trying to support refugees, though I know that the term is not very much liked. I think human life is always problematic, but the main thing is your attitude, how you deal with it, because success is not a scale, it's an attitude. So we have a lot of opportunities, we have a lot of things, a lot of tools, but we just have to utilize, we just have to take advantage of. And the main thing we need that is mutual understanding and the main thing is harmony, because both of us, we have to work together and we can make the Germany proud and let's make our generations proud, I would say. And the main thing is to work in a teamwork and man can do anything. And the impossible word is no word, there's no room for failure, only the success is our destiny, just make it. Awesome Rafi. Anyone say, Grace, an anatomy? Yeah, most people saw Grace anatomy. Yeah, really smiling, but very shy. There's a scene like doctors from Syria, they want to make an operation, so the American doctor, they told them, please, simulate what you're doing in Syria. So they told them, okay, there's a lot of tools, we didn't use it, just two things. And there is no electricity, we just have a flashlight and we make a lot of operation. So this is what the idea, people don't have a lot of tools, but they're doing a lot of stuff. Can you imagine if you give them tools, if you give them like the same people here, what they're going to do? Thank you very much. Thanks, you guys. Yeah, you should say. No, you should stay here. You should stay here. So the final words that I want to say is, I guess, if you look at the numbers, how many people came and how many things were done, we have a lot of numbers and a lot of data, but sometimes we forget that there are a lot of stories behind that. And I believe telling the individual story is not only because it's such a nice story to tell, but it's the way how we engage. And I personally am very happy to have Kashif and Rafi as my friends here. Not only that Kashif is also a student with us and Rafi is working with me and I heavily rely on his work in the marketing team at Karan, but it's also about coming together and being friends. And I believe the way to move forward is, yes, we can use a lot of online and digital to start the conversation or to keep it up to date, I guess, as everyone else is doing, how you stay connected with friends all over Facebook. But at the end of the day, it's about meeting in person and finding that way to learn from one another. And I believe that that's what it's all about. So we are family. Yes, we are family. That's right. So thank you guys so much for also being here and sharing your story. And yeah, thank you guys for listening and I hope we somehow start that conversation about how what the right or what a good balance is between the online and the offline. Not only when it comes to the integrating refugees using two terms that I actually don't like, but it's just what we're talking about. But also, yeah, how we can all engage together. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
build digital tools for refugees and myself saw is that a lot of these tools are being built were built last year were really addressing these find funny that a lot of people build tools for volunteers, which has been super successful. In solutions but which are still scaling is these good balance is between the online and the